SteelKing728 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 it was Kyle Carter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshpit23 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 13 minutes ago, SemperFeist said: I believe it was #86 Went and looked back at the game. You are 100% correct, it was #86. The announcer incorrectly called number 86 as David Morgan. I guess that’s where my confusion started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshpit23 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 10 minutes ago, SteelKing728 said: it was Kyle Carter Yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 54 minutes ago, Klomp said: Not seeing any open receivers deep? So you're saying every pass he throws is underneath? Interesting analysis. Nope, but I wouldn’t expect you to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 not seeing the game yesterday, i don't know... did Keenum have any of his patented duck and escape moves? did they have called rush plays for him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klomp Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Just now, vike daddy said: not seeing the game yesterday, i don't know... did Keenum have any of his patented duck and escape moves? A couple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherwrestler Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 1 hour ago, JDBrocks said: How are they not correlated, and which stats are definitively better? Because you could have missed numerous reads at 5-6 yards that were wide open and could of ended up gaining 30-40 yards, while completing the pass that was a covered player for a 20 yard air pass with no YAC on the same play. No stats are going to prove missed passing plays when sometime the same play could have gone the other way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherwrestler Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 21 minutes ago, SemperFeist said: Nope, but I wouldn’t expect you to understand. I understand you, but I also understand about throwing to an easy reception of McKinnon. He was wide open on an easy pass for guaranteed big yards instead of throwing it deep and taking a chance on a rookie TE with no chemistry with you on overthrowing him, underthrowing him, or even a drop. I realize there are more than just this one play, but I have no shame on what the choice was here on this play. Case might even realize what he is, he might realize he isn't the greatest passing QB of all time and might just make the throws to other receivers that he feels comfortable throwing. Take that chance on that play in the playoffs and it is a drop, or it is a third down play, it kills momentum and you will be beating yourself in the head when McKinnon was the easy throw and large pick-up of yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherwrestler Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 I'm not even one to normally defend Case, I just understand he isn't Tom Brady/Aaron Rodgers. He may never even be anything more than he is now, but that throw to McKinnon was a completely logical throw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 6 minutes ago, gopherwrestler said: I'm not even one to normally defend Case, I just understand he isn't Tom Brady/Aaron Rodgers. He may never even be anything more than he is now, but that throw to McKinnon was a completely logical throw. Who said it wasn't? I think that's the element that you are missing. Totally an acceptable logical throw that was a net positive. Is that concept mutually exclusive with missing an equally open throw for a greater net positive on the same play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 14 minutes ago, gopherwrestler said: Because you could have missed numerous reads at 5-6 yards that were wide open and could of ended up gaining 30-40 yards, while completing the pass that was a covered player for a 20 yard air pass with no YAC on the same play. No stats are going to prove missed passing plays when sometime the same play could have gone the other way These are averages. Are you suggesting that the scenario that you proposed is fairly common and that air yards are not valuable? I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. Additionally, take into consideration the Intended air yards. This shows the average distance the ball travels in the air by attempt. I don't think this is a comprehensive stat by any means, but I do think it sheds light on the QBs ability to move the ball downfield, and is generally a higher number when QBs aren't missing mid to deep open reads. Just my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherwrestler Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, JDBrocks said: Who said it wasn't? I think that's the element that you are missing. Totally an acceptable logical throw that was a net positive. Is that concept mutually exclusive with missing an equally open throw for a greater net positive on the same play? but who is to say he didn't see him and didn't want to make that throw? Who is to say in the system we run that play wasn't made to get McKinnon open making his read an earlier read than a clear out route that Carter ran? A backside streak/corner isn't a typical route for a #3 TE to make in a system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherwrestler Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, JDBrocks said: These are averages. Are you suggesting that the scenario that you proposed is fairly common and that air yards are not valuable? I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. Additionally, take into consideration the Intended air yards. This shows the average distance the ball travels in the air by attempt. I don't think this is a comprehensive stat by any means, but I do think it sheds light on the QBs ability to move the ball downfield, and is generally a higher number when QBs aren't missing mid to deep open reads. Just my two cents. Fairly common? Yes. You see many times how many forced throws downfield are made and you could have netted more Yac on possibly a shorter throw. Also notice which teams are higher and what types of offenses they are running. Our offense isn't designed on big air plays, our QB's have never been capable of that. How many times are these "misses" are these plays being converted on a 5-6 yard type pass that also netted large chunk yardage. Just because Air Yards are not higher doesn't mean we aren't moving the ball downfield. I 100% get what you are getting at. If he throws to some of these miss reads the numbers would be higher, but also the completion % numbers would also probably be lower. The deeper the throw the more likely it becomes a drop, missed throw, and inaccurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 I'm about done here as I've made my point. This is one example of a pretty solid trend over the course of this year and years past. I can't bag on the guy too much for only having 3 incomplete passes on the day, but the image above is representative of one of my biggest criticisms of Keenum. I would also be willing in most cases to sacrifice a few points in completion percentage if it meant hitting on an extra TD or two every other game. Most of the missed opportunities are fairly low risk in that the player is wide open, and only sacrificing a down. Ultimately, the pass to McKinnon was a 3rd down conversion, and a miss to Carter would have resulted in a punt. My point remains the same though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 1 hour ago, JDBrocks said: Who said it wasn't? I think that's the element that you are missing. Totally an acceptable logical throw that was a net positive. Is that concept mutually exclusive with missing an equally open throw for a greater net positive on the same play? I was unable to see the game yesterday. My question is, did "not seeing" Carter open deep cost the Vikings points? Did they ultimately score on that drive?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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