2018 Draft Thread I

[John232]

1 hour ago, Knowledge said:

Completely hypothetical and has zero chance of happening but saw it on another forum and thought it was interesting

Lets say the Browns offer #1 pick #4 pick and Myles Garrett for Jimmy G. 49ers can sign Cousins. You doing the deal?

Me personally I wouldn't because i feel Jimmy G has a higher ceiling and obviously QB is the most important position . I think any GM would at least have to think about it for a couple mins though but I know Lynch would turn it down because ive seen the enthusiasm he has for Jimmy

No, without hesitation. I liked Kirk, I would have been content signing him, but I don't think he gave this team a shot at a dynasty due to his age and basically..he's not a top 5 caliber QB. He's not going to carry an offense. We could have won a chip if we built the defense right and had some luck break our way, certainly be a playoff team...But if Jimmy G proves he's as good as the stretch of play we've just seen...we just got a top 5 QB in the NFL and a guy who could be vying for the title of best QB. 

 

[Forge]

2 hours ago, Knowledge said:

Completely hypothetical and has zero chance of happening but saw it on another forum and thought it was interesting

Lets say the Brows offer #1 pick #4 pick and Myles Garrett for Jimmy G. 49ers can sign Cousins. You doing the deal?

Me personally I wouldn't because i feel Jimmy G has a higher ceiling and obviously QB is the most important position . I think any GM would at least have to think about it for a couple mins though but I know Lynch would turn it down because ive seen the enthusiasm he has for Jimmy

Interesting...tempting. I definitely wish I Liked the top of the draft a little bit more, but hard to argue with potentially 3 top 10 picks this year, plus having Cousins and Garrett. I think that I would. I mean, basically what we are asking is this- Is Jimmy G worth Myles Garrett, Kirk Cousins, Saquon Barkley and Quinton Nelson. You can even take it a step further if you think that you can trade out of the #1 spot to a team that wants to jump NYG. Let's say you send it to Denver for their #1 (say pick 6), #2, #4, next year's #1, and next year's #2 or #3. I mean, given that you have a known quantity coming back at the quarterback position...just wow. That's really hard to pass up. Let's say we pick around that #8 range. We could have 

Jimmy G 

Arden Key / Quenton Nelson / Calvin Ridley / who ever

Frank Ragnow (round 2). 

Or we could swap Jimmy G out and have

Kirk Cousins

Myles Garret (no more need for a LEO)

Saquon Barkley (let's just say #1 overall)

Quenton Nelson (#4)

Calvin Ridley / Courtland Sutton / Denzel Ward / Josh Jackson whoever (#8)

Leighton Vander Esche (2nd rounder to play SAM)

If you take it a step further, and could potentially trade that #1 overall to a team like Denver, you can probably still land Barkley at #4 (top 2 teams take Darnold / Rosen, Colts either trade or take Chubb in my opinion), Nelson at #6, whoever you wanted at the 8 range, and then you have the additional picks (which truthfully should include this years second rounder from the Broncos). You could even get a player from the Broncos to help their cap situation in the trade that may fill an immediate hole. Emmanuel Sanders? Sure, I'd think I would take him over an extra draft pick. Maybe Bradley Roby (with only one year left on his deal at nearly 9 million, that's a little more difficult). Heck, maybe they would even give up Chris Harris rather than the following year's #1, and I Think I'd be down for that as well. Plus, let's be real...it's still a 4 game sample of Jimmy so far.

[y2lamanaki]

16 hours ago, big9erfan said:

Exactly what I think of him.  If WR were our only hole I'd be interested in the teens, but we have bigger needs at so many other positions. At 7 to 10 I'm good with Nelson. If we trade back to the teens maybe Ward, or Barkley or an edge rusher.  If we trade all the way back to the 20's I'd take Price who I think is almost as good of a Center as Nelson is at Guard. Plus he played G most of his career and could always be used there if necessary. I like the idea of a big-bodied WR that can catch with one of our third round picks.  

Because we have Staley and Brown it doesn't appear we need an OT.  But looks can be deceiving.  We have nothing behind them if one gets hurts, and next year will be Staley's 12th. There can't be too much left in that tank. If McGlinchey could really play G he might be a decent choice with the plan to move Brown over to the left side in a couple years, McGlinchey to the right side and then we find a more permanent fix for the G spot.

I agree with all this. I don't think it's important that we differentiate linemen by position and instead look at getting the most capable lineman in the draft (so long as playing interior in 2018 is possible- if a guy is a tackle only, I'm not yet interested).

Realistically, we have nobody on the line guaranteed to be here long-term, and only Brown represents someone worthy of being here for a long while. But he's only signed through next year and whispers earlier seemed to suggest he may or may not be around beyond next year (He is a Baalke pick, after all, and they have been notoriously difficult to find lately).

So, regardless of position, if they can play inside in 2018, go get the best one and build in future years around that.

[48 1/2ers]

11 hours ago, Knowledge said:

Completely hypothetical and has zero chance of happening but saw it on another forum and thought it was interesting

Lets say the Browns offer #1 pick #4 pick and Myles Garrett for Jimmy G. 49ers can sign Cousins. You doing the deal?

Me personally I wouldn't because i feel Jimmy G has a higher ceiling and obviously QB is the most important position . I think any GM would at least have to think about it for a couple mins though but I know Lynch would turn it down because ive seen the enthusiasm he has for Jimmy

Yes I'm doing this deal, no question about it. 

[y2lamanaki]

10 hours ago, Forge said:

Interesting...tempting. I definitely wish I Liked the top of the draft a little bit more, but hard to argue with potentially 3 top 10 picks this year, plus having Cousins and Garrett. I think that I would. I mean, basically what we are asking is this- Is Jimmy G worth Myles Garrett, Kirk Cousins, Saquon Barkley and Quinton Nelson. You can even take it a step further if you think that you can trade out of the #1 spot to a team that wants to jump NYG. Let's say you send it to Denver for their #1 (say pick 6), #2, #4, next year's #1, and next year's #2 or #3. I mean, given that you have a known quantity coming back at the quarterback position...just wow. That's really hard to pass up. Let's say we pick around that #8 range. We could have 

Jimmy G 

Arden Key / Quenton Nelson / Calvin Ridley / who ever

Frank Ragnow (round 2). 

Or we could swap Jimmy G out and have

Kirk Cousins

Myles Garret (no more need for a LEO)

Saquon Barkley (let's just say #1 overall)

Quenton Nelson (#4)

Calvin Ridley / Courtland Sutton / Denzel Ward / Josh Jackson whoever (#8)

Leighton Vander Esche (2nd rounder to play SAM)

If you take it a step further, and could potentially trade that #1 overall to a team like Denver, you can probably still land Barkley at #4 (top 2 teams take Darnold / Rosen, Colts either trade or take Chubb in my opinion), Nelson at #6, whoever you wanted at the 8 range, and then you have the additional picks (which truthfully should include this years second rounder from the Broncos). You could even get a player from the Broncos to help their cap situation in the trade that may fill an immediate hole. Emmanuel Sanders? Sure, I'd think I would take him over an extra draft pick. Maybe Bradley Roby (with only one year left on his deal at nearly 9 million, that's a little more difficult). Heck, maybe they would even give up Chris Harris rather than the following year's #1, and I Think I'd be down for that as well. Plus, let's be real...it's still a 4 game sample of Jimmy so far.

I think I would pass on the offer for Jimmy G, but I will agree it's tempting in a certain way. My problem is how highly I value Garoppolo. I say substitute for Garoppolo a 26 year old Brady or Rodgers and ask if you'd make that trade. Because I see in Garoppolo those traits that make those QBs brilliant, I have to ask if I'd be willing to trade those players for anything, let alone a 30+ mid-tier QB and a bunch of pieces that may or may not work out.

If I accept, I would probably still draft Rosen/Darnold and dump someone (them or Cousins) in 2019 or 2020 for more picks. 

But I'm still saying no. I'm all-in on Garoppolo.

[gopherwrestler]

I don't think I would take the Browns whole draft, and a future 1st, along with Myles Garrett and Kirk Cousins in F/A for Jimmy G.

Jimmy is electric.

You found your great franchise QB, you hang onto that. Kirk isn't going to do what he does.

Yes you can develop around the whole team to improve it, but if you project Jimmy G out he can be as good as Aaron Rodgers and look where he has carried that team.

Look what Jimmy just did for the 49ers now so far this year, Kirk can carry the team like that.

 

I'd still take your picks this year and just keep investing into your offensive line and defense. Keep Jimmy up on his feet and play good defense and this whole franchise turns around quick.

 

Throw big money at Adams/Robinson in free agency and this offense will be solid enough to compete if the defense can be stable.

QB: Jimmy G

RB: Hyde, Brieda

WR: Adams/Robinson, Garcon, Goodwin, Taylor

TE: Kittle, Celek

 

[J-ALL-DAY]

2 hours ago, y2lamanaki said:

I think I would pass on the offer for Jimmy G, but I will agree it's tempting in a certain way. My problem is how highly I value Garoppolo. I say substitute for Garoppolo a 26 year old Brady or Rodgers and ask if you'd make that trade. Because I see in Garoppolo those traits that make those QBs brilliant, I have to ask if I'd be willing to trade those players for anything, let alone a 30+ mid-tier QB and a bunch of pieces that may or may not work out.

If I accept, I would probably still draft Rosen/Darnold and dump someone (them or Cousins) in 2019 or 2020 for more picks. 

But I'm still saying no. I'm all-in on Garoppolo.

Agreed. It basically comes down to how you rate Garoppolo going forward and the difference between him and Cousins. If you think Garoppolo is a bit better but they are on the same level, then you make that trade. If you think Garoppolo has top 5 elite potential, then you do anything in your power to keep him. History shows having a top notch elite QB pretty much guarantees a playoff birth every single season as long as you have a competent front office. I mean Brees would be in the minority, but he's had to deal with some of the worst defenses of recent memory. 

 

[Forge]

2 hours ago, y2lamanaki said:

I think I would pass on the offer for Jimmy G, but I will agree it's tempting in a certain way. My problem is how highly I value Garoppolo. I say substitute for Garoppolo a 26 year old Brady or Rodgers and ask if you'd make that trade. Because I see in Garoppolo those traits that make those QBs brilliant, I have to ask if I'd be willing to trade those players for anything, let alone a 30+ mid-tier QB and a bunch of pieces that may or may not work out.

If I accept, I would probably still draft Rosen/Darnold and dump someone (them or Cousins) in 2019 or 2020 for more picks. 

But I'm still saying no. I'm all-in on Garoppolo.

See, and my problem is how highly I value Jimmy G against a very limited sample size. As a team that once had the guy who could become "the greatest quarterback in NFL history", I think everyone would understand that. There is no shortage of guys who have looked amazing and then flatlined or regressed soon after. People forget how good Andy Dalton looked after his second and third seasons. Derek Carr as well.  It's a really tempting offer all the way around. It's harder mainly because I don't love this draft at the top, so picks 1 and 4 just don't excite me as much as they would in a typical draft, which is why I went with the players I did in my scenario, because they are the most likely to hit, in my opinion (honestly, wouldn't be wholly shocked if this draft class ends up similar to 2013). If it didn't involve Cousins, Its an easy no for me, but Cousins has been largely devalued for some reason. He's struggled at times this season, and he's still having a very nice year with a lot of problems going on with that Washington offense (injuries to o-line, no run game, no reed, pryor being a bust). In truth, this is one of his more impressive seasons despite the struggles. Still throws some bonehead interceptions though. 

[Forge]

Just now, J-ALL-DAY said:

Agreed. It basically comes down to how you rate Garoppolo going forward and the difference between him and Cousins. If you think Garoppolo is a bit better but they are on the same level, then you make that trade. If you think Garoppolo has top 5 elite potential, then you do anything in your power to keep him. History shows having a top notch elite QB pretty much guarantees a playoff birth every single season as long as you have a competent front office. I mean Brees would be in the minority, but he's had to deal with some of the worst defenses of recent memory. 

 

Pretty much this. 

[big9erfan]

15 hours ago, Knowledge said:

Completely hypothetical and has zero chance of happening but saw it on another forum and thought it was interesting

Lets say the Browns offer #1 pick #4 pick and Myles Garrett for Jimmy G. 49ers can sign Cousins. You doing the deal?

Me personally I wouldn't because i feel Jimmy G has a higher ceiling and obviously QB is the most important position . I think any GM would at least have to think about it for a couple mins though but I know Lynch would turn it down because ive seen the enthusiasm he has for Jimmy

The thing to remember about what you are proprosing is that the number one pick is quite likely to be worth something like a pick in the 5 to 10 range, plus something like a 2nd,  a 3rd or 4th, plus a future 1st and second (both of those likely to be reasonably high). Not to mention it's possible that, depending on the final draft order, that 4th alone might be really valuable. Might be able to turn that into a 5th or 6th plus a 5th or 6th pick in the second round.  

In other words, best case scenario here, it would be Cousins plus Garrett plus a couple of picks in the top 10, a couple more in the top 10 of the second round, a 3rd or 4th, and a high 1st rounder and high second rounder next year.  Does that make it seem like a more reasonable thing to do?

[big9erfan]

I'm beginning to hate the can of worms that McCaffrey opened last year. I haven't seen Landry play at all. Turned on the game just to watch him only to find out he was sitting it out.  Then on to the Texas game to see what Williams had to offer. Sitting it out.  Misssed another chance to see Rosen play to see if I think he's better than Darnold.  They said it was an injury, but I think that was just an excuse. If this keeps up the national championship game will become a joke as guys decide to sit it out and the teams playing in it are not really the same teams that went through the year. In fact, if a team is not in the running for the championship and you're going to sit out a bowl game because you're scared of gettign hurt, then how about your final game of the season? How about the final 2?  It looks like a pretty slippery slope to me.

[Forge]

2 minutes ago, big9erfan said:

I'm beginning to hate the can of worms that McCaffrey opened last year. I haven't seen Landry play at all. Turned on the game just to watch him only to find out he was sitting it out.  Then on to the Texas game to see what Williams had to offer. Sitting it out.  Misssed another chance to see Rosen play to see if I think he's better than Darnold.  They said it was an injury, but I think that was just an excuse. If this keeps up the national championship game will become a joke as guys decide to sit it out and the teams playing in it are not really the same teams that went through the year. In fact, if a team is not in the running for the championship and you're going to sit out a bowl game because you're scared of gettign hurt, then how about your final game of the season? How about the final 2?  It looks like a pretty slippery slope to me.

Doesn't bother me at all. We had this debate in the draft forum. It's a business decision, nothing more, nothing less. I don't care if they sit out the bowl game, the final two games, or even their final season if they think that they are good on their draft stock (though hard to envision a scenario where there stock would remain the same if they sat out an entire season). This is a business first and foremost, and they are risking millions of dollars by playing in something that means nothing, I have no issues if they decide it isn't worth the risk. 

[big9erfan]

2 hours ago, Forge said:

Doesn't bother me at all. We had this debate in the draft forum. It's a business decision, nothing more, nothing less. I don't care if they sit out the bowl game, the final two games, or even their final season if they think that they are good on their draft stock (though hard to envision a scenario where there stock would remain the same if they sat out an entire season). This is a business first and foremost, and they are risking millions of dollars by playing in something that means nothing, I have no issues if they decide it isn't worth the risk. 

I think what you are suggesting would be a disaster for college football.  Football fandom is based on the notion of teams acquiring promising HS players and then seeing how they develop over time, building up your enthusiasm for a team as you see the young guys develop os sophmores and then juniors and seniors.  I'm already hating that we're often only seeing a year or two of college play from some of the best players who were red-shirted early.  Take another year away from that and I'm personally going to start losing interest. I'm honestly a whole lot less interested in college basketball in the "one and done" era.

[Forge]

Just now, big9erfan said:

I think what you are suggesting would be a disaster for college football.  Football fandom is based on the notion of teams acquiring promising HS players and then seeing how they develop over time, building up your enthusiasm for a team as you see the young guys develop os sophmores and then juniors and seniors.  I'm already hating that we're often only seeing a year or two of college play from some of the best players who were red-shirted early.  Take another year away from that and I'm personally going to start losing interest. I'm honestly a whole lot less interested in college basketball in the "one and done" era.

I'm not going to lie...I just don't care if it's a disaster for college football lol, and neither should these players. These players should be looking out for themselves first and foremost, so I have no issues with what they are doing, or if they preferred to skip more than just a meaningless bowl game. That's completely up to them. 

[Ronnie's Pinky]

2 hours ago, big9erfan said:

I think what you are suggesting would be a disaster for college football.  Football fandom is based on the notion of teams acquiring promising HS players and then seeing how they develop over time, building up your enthusiasm for a team as you see the young guys develop as sophmores and then juniors and seniors.  I'm already hating that we're often only seeing a year or two of college play from some of the best players who were red-shirted early.  Take another year away from that and I'm personally going to start losing interest. I'm honestly a whole lot less interested in college basketball in the "one and done" era.

Considering that the NCAA/NFL system is basically set up to make young football players indentured servants for the first 3-4 years of their careers, and then underpaid for the next four, I have no problem with the employee in this scenario making a business decision to his own benefit. The players owe less than nothing to the universities in question, and the public's enjoyment of college football doesn't change what goes into their pockets in any way, as they are already earning a pittance for their labor while in college.

In fact, falling profitability/interest in college football might very well be a good thing for college football players. There is very little about the current system which actually works in their best interests.