AZBearsFan Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 7 minutes ago, SLCbear said: Its not only the 'max return' driving this outlook for me. Keeping JF this year to protect CW from being theown to wolves week 1 Thrown to the wolves in what regard? Do you think Williams won’t have enough of a grasp of the offense after 5 months immersion to be able to function? He’s arguably the most talented QB to come out in years. By September we’ll almost certainly have a more talented (possibly WAY more so) WR room, a capable at minimum running game, further OL upgrades from last year’s deficient areas and a solid or better defense. This isn’t last year’s CAR roster. 11 minutes ago, SLCbear said: CW can learn alot from JF, most notably what NOT to do, holding the ball, playing hero ball, running around thinking he can do those same things in the NFL with his legs etc CW is going to have to learn what he can’t do by trial and error on the field same as every QB ever. Film of Fields making mistakes would serve the same purpose as seeing it from the sidelines. 13 minutes ago, SLCbear said: 't doesn't HaVE to be an 'unnecessarily difficult situation for everyone' tell young Caleb he will back up JF to start, tell JF its his job to lose, let it play out ...guys in the lockerroom will most likely have grEAT respect for both QBs, both super talented and super likeable ! Chargers did it with Rivers and Brees wo any difficulties The only way that could work is if they get an actual competition for the spot, but even that has both guys getting reduced reps learning a new offense at the same time, which will leave both guys less prepared for week 1 regardless of who wins the competition. Brees and Rivers was different because Brees wasn’t learning everything about the offense from scratch alongside Rivers. 15 minutes ago, SLCbear said: My outlook is not so much to move JF at the deadline, the only scenario that makes sense for that would be if JF goes down EARLy and Caleb steps in for few games and lights it up. In this scenario, who is trading for Fields after he gets hurt and then benched, only to have him available for a handful of games at most while learning yet another new offense on the fly before they lose him to FA or have to give him a hefty contract to avoid it? That sounds great for the Bears, but what team is making that deal thinking it’s in the best interest of the other team? Few teams if anyone want to trade for him now at a time when they can get him a full offseason of immersion into their offense and time to build rapport with his receivers. But midseason, with minimal practice time? Little to no chance, and if they are willing to trade it’s going to be for the most bottom of bottom prices. Regardless of what you think of Fields as a QB talent, the one thing that’s reasonably indisputable is that his unique skill set is about as far from a plug-and-play player at QB as you’ll find. 25 minutes ago, SLCbear said: JF in year 4 is same price or less than a FA backup, but MOsT importantly protects Caleb ...and Waldron will get the best out of Fields, which only improves JF trade value. Teams will have missed out on his HELLAcheap year 4 but its their own fault for not stepping up and giving us solid compensation NOW 27 minutes ago, SLCbear said: JF in year 4 is same price or less than a FA backup, but MOsT importantly protects Caleb ...and Waldron will get the best out of Fields, which only improves JF trade value. Teams will have missed out on his HELLAcheap year 4 but its their own fault for not stepping up and giving us solid compensation NOW If JF looks the same then we trade him away for later round pick we would be getting NOW or outright release him and let him choose where he wants to play. By then he will have been given an opportunity with Waldron, while firmly protecting our future (CW) both of these are way more valuable than a late round '24 pick imho If Fields looks the same in year 4 then nobody is trading for him. The closer he gets to FA the less willing teams will be to invest anything to acquire him, especially if he doesn’t show improvement. And again with protecting Caleb. From what does he need protecting? If Fields were to stay for 2024 vs. being traded pre-draft, every single scenario other than Fields winning the job on merit and then balling out all season to where no reasonable consideration to putting CW in is a significant net loss. Even at that you’re creating a mess next offseason where you’re either trading a now established and beloved leader and 26-year old QB in Fields in favor of what is basically a rookie (likely inciting both fan and locker room revolt), or taking a huge dead cap liability to trade CW for below market value (other teams will know we’re building around Fields and thus have additional leverage points) while taking further significant cap liabilities to keep Fields for 2025 and every year afterward, meaning your “win” scenario for keeping is still an expensive convoluted mess that restricts the team’s 2025 and 2026 finances significantly. Fields unquestionably has trade value right now. It may not be what you think is “solid”, but the market decides value, and right now his market is extremely limited. If Fields stays and CW wins the job (which btw is exactly what we should want in that scenario since he’s the future) then Fields’ trade value immediately plummets from wherever it is now to either nothing or basically nothing. We’d be getting exactly what we’re hoping for out of drafting Williams, but costing ourselves draft capital along the way for no real reason. That sucks, but that doesn’t change reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOGRIESE Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 hour ago, SLCbear said: 'biggest distraction possible' ? Why can it onLy be this ? CW is a different kind of dude and wants to be the GoAT, Mahomes sat for most of Rookie Season, Tom Brady didn't start week 1 either. Caleb's idol Aaron Rodgers sat for sever seasons, so why would CW look down on having to sit some ?? Hell Caleb may even WANT to sit on some level, its not like we have a great track history (or any history at all ha ha) drafting and developing QBs. I'm sure Caleb has muchos respect for JF and vice versa. Whats more, JF is wired perfectly and will never EVER be a lockerroom cancer Chargers did it with Brees and Rivers, Cowboys with Aikman and Walsh, we are not setting any precedent Your ignoring the fact that the media is going to be non stop with this story. One bad game from Justin and it's going to be when does Caleb get the start? All this while trying to make the playoffs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 3 minutes ago, GOGRIESE said: Your ignoring the fact that the media is going to be non stop with this story. One bad game from Justin and it's going to be when does Caleb get the start? All this while trying to make the playoffs. Yeah regardless of the compensation I don't think you can keep Fields & Caleb on the same roster...pressure on both would be insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 I hope this is not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 3 minutes ago, GOGRIESE said: Your ignoring the fact that the media is going to be non stop with this story. One bad game from Justin and it's going to be when does Caleb get the start? All this while trying to make the playoffs. I mean, you’re literally drafting CW at 1 because you don’t think Fields will be good enough long term, or at least that it’s so much less likely than CW being good enough long term that you can’t reasonably justify trying with Fields and passing up a windfall of other assets in exchange for the pick. Once you’ve made that decision, delaying the inevitable on the unlikely hopes that Fields’ trade value somehow increases in a consequential way when the whole league knows you’re moving on is just bad process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 44 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: Thrown to the wolves in what regard? Do you think Williams won’t have enough of a grasp of the offense after 5 months immersion to be able to function? He’s arguably the most talented QB to come out in years. By September we’ll almost certainly have a more talented (possibly WAY more so) WR room, a capable at minimum running game, further OL upgrades from last year’s deficient areas and a solid or better defense. This isn’t last year’s CAR roster. CW is going to have to learn what he can’t do by trial and error on the field same as every QB ever. Film of Fields making mistakes would serve the same purpose as seeing it from the sidelines. If we draft Caleb and give all his offseason reps to ANY veteran except Patrick Mahomes I am going to be soooooooo pissed. Going to be Dalton all over again. I don't know if I could stand it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOGRIESE Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 4 minutes ago, Madmike90 said: Yeah regardless of the compensation I don't think you can keep Fields & Caleb on the same roster...pressure on both would be insane. 1 minute ago, AZBearsFan said: I mean, you’re literally drafting CW at 1 because you don’t think Fields will be good enough long term, or at least that it’s so much less likely than CW being good enough long term that you can’t reasonably justify trying with Fields and passing up a windfall of other assets in exchange for the pick. Once you’ve made that decision, delaying the inevitable on the unlikely hopes that Fields’ trade value somehow increases in a consequential way when the whole league knows you’re moving on is just bad process. Agree with both. First to MM90s point..exactly the pressure would be insane. Because it would be a non stop news story. If I were one of them I would immediately request a trade to get the hell out of here if this circus came to town. AZ yes on the compensation side it makes no sense. Once he's benched for Caleb his value is zero. If he plays like he did this year I think his trade value probably goes down too. It's just more evidence he's not improving. Whatever we are going to get now is the best we probably can. It's the best for both the Bears and Justin that he's probably shipped out in the next week or so. Also I hate this argument that QBs need to sit. I mean I think the best example for that argument is Jordan Love. Fine. But did Mahomes really need to sit for a year over Alex Smith? I look at it as a wasted year when you have a special QB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOGRIESE Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 11 minutes ago, dll2000 said: I hope this is not true. I think this is more evidence that there's a real problem with moving Justin...where the heck does he go? The obvious landing spots like the Falcons and Steelers seem disinterested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 5 minutes ago, GOGRIESE said: I think this is more evidence that there's a real problem with moving Justin...where the heck does he go? The obvious landing spots like the Falcons and Steelers seem disinterested. According to who? I mean the reports from the Steelers have always been lukewarm about JF. And the Cousins stuff from Atlanta has been coming from his camp. Not the team. There are more than a handful of teams that are all still interested. It’s all just waiting on Cousins’ move Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOGRIESE Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 5 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said: According to who? I mean the reports from the Steelers have always been lukewarm about JF. And the Cousins stuff from Atlanta has been coming from his camp. Not the team. There are more than a handful of teams that are all still interested. It’s all just waiting on Cousins’ move The Russell Wilson reports seem to confirm that. Considering they could sign him to a deal much less than what Justin Fields salary is going to be for the next few years. Fair about Atlanta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Yikes no thanks. What's the upside from this move? That some team might get desperate enough either in summer or season to trade for more than teams are offering now for Fields? You're also moving whatever draft compensation into 2025 when doing it now should get you 2024 picks. Meanwhile, it is guaranteed to be a non stop story and we're getting kinda sick of those. Can't see this being anything positive for the team dynamics and wouldn't appease anyone who was really big on Justin, certainly worse than moving him now and giving them some time to process. Instead you'd have that conflict front and center, literally walking aroudn the same locker room together. Yikes again. I see the thought of being able to get more for Justin but in the meantime what a circus. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 21 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said: According to who? I mean the reports from the Steelers have always been lukewarm about JF. And the Cousins stuff from Atlanta has been coming from his camp. Not the team. There are more than a handful of teams that are all still interested. It’s all just waiting on Cousins’ move In every possible way the best thing for us is for Cousins' to resign in Minnesota. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 2 minutes ago, Madmike90 said: In every possible way the best thing for us is for Cousins' to resign in Minnesota. Or Vegas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 5 minutes ago, Madmike90 said: In every possible way the best thing for us is for Cousins' to resign in Minnesota. Just realized that there's probably a large part of the NFC North fanbase that wants every other team to keep it's QB. Weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 47 minutes ago, BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW said: Just realized that there's probably a large part of the NFC North fanbase that wants every other team to keep it's QB. Weird. I'm not afraid of Goff, Love or Cousins. Love showed some potential I have to admit. Nor are any of them afraid of Fields. Though he played good against Detroit. He hasn't given MN and GB a lot to fear. But Caleb has entered the chat. We'll see how that goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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