Packers D Coordinator Watch

[Norm]

36 minutes ago, {Family Ghost} said:

My point wasn't to toot my own horn and show that I was right.  Truth be told I was probably wrong like Thompson.

Nah, I know. I've never taken issue with your criticisms. It was just opening up the broader point I constantly harp on lol

[CWood21]

9 hours ago, cannondale said:

How could the Packers not know what they had ? Isn't that part of talent evaluation and coaching ? Finding out what your guys can and cannot do and put them in the best situation to succeed and help your team ? Hayward was drafted in 2012, Hyde in 2013, and HHCD in 2104. I'll gladly concede the Hyde timeline is tight, but many here thought his best position may end up being at Safety. Your Jimmy G example is a good one, but carries with it a big, fat, huge if. It rarely happens and It happened to us not once but twice. Granted, you can connect the dots any which way you like, but when I connect them it reveals a huge problem. One could argue staying on the current path would find HHCD regressing all the way to M.D. Jennings. There is way too much smoke not to be fire. And when players start going public you know something is amiss

How much did Micah Hyde play safety in 2016?  In 2016, HHCD played in 99.9% of the defensive snaps while Morgan Burnett played in 91.8%.  Let's assume for a second that the Packers played ONLY two safeties on the field at a time.  That's not an unreasonable assumption to make.  If we make that assumption, that leaves another 8% of the defensive snaps at safety available for Hyde, which amounts to roughly 82 snaps at safety over the course of a season.  That's not very much.  This year, Micah Hyde was present in 96% of the defensive snaps presumably most of them were at safety.  Let's look at this objectively.  The Packers don't play a ton of 3 safety looks (and I'm talking about traditional safety role, not the hybrid S/LB role that Burnett did this year), and he wasn't displacing HHCD or Morgan Burnett.  That's not something you can properly evaluate.  I don't care how many people thought his natural position was safety, the fact is he wasn't going to get PT at safety as long as Morgan Burnnett and HHCD were under contract.

As for Hayward, I still stand by my opinion that nobody wanted him back unless the price was right.  He was beaten soundly when he was a boundary corner.  I remember the Denver game in particular was particularly damning.  He couldn't keep up with Demaryius Thomas at all.  He was a pure slot corner in Green Bay.  Now that he's having success in Los Angeles/San Diego, we should have done everything to retain him.  It's nauseating.

As for my Jimmy G example, it's absolutely valid.  We're talking about something that hasn't transpired yet, and comparing it to something that has happened.  You're not going to find a perfect analogy, but that's pretty damn close.

[CWood21]

6 hours ago, cannondale said:

Wrong again - as usual - no hindsight needed if we would have used the players correctly to begin with. Keep balancing on the ever shrinking crumbling ground that's left defending our overpaid, outdated, overly complicated, coordinator and his scheme.

You're more than welcome to provide evidence that you thought it was a mistake to let Hayward/Hyde walk as FA at the time that they departed.  None of this revisionist logic.

[squire12]

8 hours ago, CWood21 said:

How much did Micah Hyde play safety in 2016?  In 2016, HHCD played in 99.9% of the defensive snaps while Morgan Burnett played in 91.8%.  Let's assume for a second that the Packers played ONLY two safeties on the field at a time.  That's not an unreasonable assumption to make.  If we make that assumption, that leaves another 8% of the defensive snaps at safety available for Hyde, which amounts to roughly 82 snaps at safety over the course of a season.  That's not very much.  This year, Micah Hyde was present in 96% of the defensive snaps presumably most of them were at safety.  Let's look at this objectively.  The Packers don't play a ton of 3 safety looks (and I'm talking about traditional safety role, not the hybrid S/LB role that Burnett did this year), and he wasn't displacing HHCD or Morgan Burnett.  That's not something you can properly evaluate.  I don't care how many people thought his natural position was safety, the fact is he wasn't going to get PT at safety as long as Morgan Burnnett and HHCD were under contract.

GB had 4 years of OTA's, training camps, preseason games to see what they had in Hyde.  Using only regular season game snaps is shortsighted.

[spilltray]

If you resign Hyde to that contract, you are planning on not resigning Burnett already. If Hyde is going to be your starting S, I think he's always going to show his limitations. You are going to be wanting to replace him. I don't think he will be consistently as good as this year. At times he's going to be exposed. Even if you KNEW he could be a starting S, and given he does have a nose for the ball, he just didn't fit here. Also, if you do keep Hyde, I doubt Jones is drafted, and I think long term he could be a much better player.

[Stevein2012]

8 hours ago, CWood21 said:

As for Hayward, I still stand by my opinion that nobody wanted him back unless the price was right.  He was beaten soundly when he was a boundary corner.  I remember the Denver game in particular was particularly damning.  He couldn't keep up with Demaryius Thomas at all.  He was a pure slot corner in Green Bay.  Now that he's having success in Los Angeles/San Diego, we should have done everything to retain him.  It's nauseating.

The price was right.  I was ok with him walking till I saw the contract he got 5m a year with small guarantee for 3 years, he was worth that easily if he did nothing but stay at slot CB.  The Denver game was the only bad game he had and he played boundary CB a lot besides that game that season but it's the only game anybody can conveniently remember. 

Any way you look at it someone whether it be the defensive coaches or TT made a mistake with Hayward letting him walk for so little without even offering a contract.  He does look better in SD but he still was at the very worst an elite slot CB which is a starter in our defense.  That doesn't mean those people are garbage or horrible at their jobs but it was a mistake.

[vegas492]

Multiple things going on here, much of it related to a tweet Hayward sent out to Hyde about being used correctly, or something like that.

Honestly, you all are reading too much into it.  Probably just friends having a good time.

Just tip your cap to both Hayward and Hyde for having great seasons and for flat out balling.

And in no way, shape, or form does it reflect poorly on TT.  Corner was a stacked position when Hayward left.  It didn't help that he was beaten like a drum when he played outside.  He wasn't a physical tackler and he had some injury issues.  Cupboard was pretty loaded with Shields, Randall and Rollins all paying better football than he did during his last year in GB.  But, great for Casey for turning it around in San Diego.

Hyde.  Funny how others knew he would be special.  I remember him being a whipping boy on chat sites.  He was Hawk-esque in that he would give up the crossing route and tackle the guy 2 yards after he got the first down.  Over and over and over.  But, the kid was a pro, and he filled in on the boundary in a pinch when needed.  But no one was thinking he would perform better than Burnett or HHCD.  So again, tip your hat to the player for turning it around.  But in no way does it reflect poorly on TT.

Should GB have known better?  I'm thinking they probably did know better.  But those were limited athletes in a Capers scheme.  Nice pieces for sure, but not priority pieces.  Those guys found newer/better schemes and are flourishing.  If anything, the issue here should be with the defensive scheme and how others leave and flourish.  Look at those 2.  Look at Peppers.  Heck, look at Josh Jones.  Training camp all Pro.  Put him in a game and he's poor.  Thinking, not attacking.  It isn't the players, to me it is the scheme.  

[Pugger]

14 hours ago, JBURGE25 said:

I don't care enough to do it, but there were A LOT of people on this forum upset when Hayward signed a $5m aav deal with the Chargers, myself included. I didn't want to pay for what I viewed as an exclusively nickel corner, but I would have paid what the Chargers gave him without a second thought

I might be biased though, I had a Hayward sig for like 3 years

But there is no way in hell Ted was gonna give Hyde a 5 year $30.5M contract like the Bills did.

[Pugger]

14 hours ago, JBURGE25 said:

I agree with Hyde, and I still stand by it. Our safety group was too deep to justify it. What I didn't see was HHCD regressing this year, though. If we don't sign Burnett, then I will be peeved at not signing Hyde though

When Hyde left didn't we still have Sam?  Didn't our 2 rookies come off promising seasons?  Nobody saw HHCD have an off year for sure.

[JBURGE]

3 minutes ago, Pugger said:

14 hours ago, JBURGE25 said:

I agree with Hyde, and I still stand by it. Our safety group was too deep to justify it. What I didn't see was HHCD regressing this year, though. If we don't sign Burnett, then I will be peeved at not signing Hyde though

When Hyde left didn't we still have Sam?  Didn't our 2 rookies come off promising seasons?  Nobody saw HHCD have an off year for sure.

I don't really understand this. No, Sam was done. He was done week 1 of the 2016 season and it seemed pretty clear to the coaching staff that he was done playing football by mid year when they didn't re-activate him when he said he was fine.

Which 2 rookies, Brice and Marwin Evans? If them, then yeah that's why I was ok with Hyde leaving. Or do you mean Randall and Rollins? Just to clarify, Hyde left this past offseason. Randall and Rollins are finishing their 3rd year. 

[Pugger]

2 minutes ago, JBURGE25 said:

I don't really understand this. No, Sam was done. He was done week 1 of the 2016 season and it seemed pretty clear to the coaching staff that he was done playing football by mid year when they didn't re-activate him when he said he was fine.

Which 2 rookies, Brice and Marwin Evans? If them, then yeah that's why I was ok with Hyde leaving. Or do you mean Randall and Rollins? Just to clarify, Hyde left this past offseason. Randall and Rollins are finishing their 3rd year. 

However, Hyde and Hayward left in the offseason BEFORE Sam got hurt.  The 2 rookies I was speaking of are Randall and Rollins.  I suspect they decided to go with these kids on rookie contracts rather than give Hyde and Hayward huge deals.

[squire12]

10 minutes ago, Pugger said:

However, Hyde and Hayward left in the offseason BEFORE Sam got hurt.  The 2 rookies I was speaking of are Randall and Rollins.  I suspect they decided to go with these kids on rookie contracts rather than give Hyde and Hayward huge deals.

Hayward left after the 2015 season.

Hyde left after the 2016 season.

Randall and Rollins were drafted in the 2015 draft and have played 3 seasons.  

Shields got hurt ( his last game played) was the season opener of the 2016 season

[spilltray]

Yes Hayward left after promising rookie seasons from Randall and Rollins.

[Pugger]

14 minutes ago, squire12 said:

Hayward left after the 2015 season.

Hyde left after the 2016 season.

Randall and Rollins were drafted in the 2015 draft and have played 3 seasons.  

Shields got hurt ( his last game played) was the season opener of the 2016 season

My mistake.  

[squire12]

47 minutes ago, Pugger said:

1 hour ago, squire12 said:

Hayward left after the 2015 season.

Hyde left after the 2016 season.

Randall and Rollins were drafted in the 2015 draft and have played 3 seasons.  

Shields got hurt ( his last game played) was the season opener of the 2016 season

My mistake.  

All good.  Hard to keep track after enough years of players coming and going.