Packers D Coordinator Watch

[CWood21]

20 hours ago, spilltray said:

Hayward is the only of the 3 that's even questionable. Peppers is where he wanted to be, and Hyde wasn't worth that deal here. 

This.  Hayward is the only one you can legitimately argue that the Packers were unwise in letting go.  Julius Peppers departure was a mutual decision, and he himself already stated he was going back to Carolina when his contract expired.  Would he have helped the pass rush in Green Bay?  Absolutely, but so would have Von Miller, Justin Houston, and several other players.  But Peppers wanted to go back to Carolina, not remain in Green Bay.  As for Hyde, we saw what he was at cornerback and he wasn't considered an upgrade at safety over HHCD (coming off a really good year) or Morgan Burnett.  So you're paying him good money to be your nickel back.  That's not something he was good at.

[CWood21]

8 hours ago, {Family Ghost} said:

I've heard that, and I've heard Peppers wanted to return to Carolina for a retirement season .. so who knows?  Bottom line is the guy was still highly productive and we struggled with our pass rush all season long.  He wasn't adequately replaced, and that's been a reoccurring issue at several positions.  

And aside from TJ Watt, what legitimate pass rusher was such an obvious upgrade over what we currently had?   I'm going to assume one of those answer is going to be Carl Lawson, and I'll point to his injury history.  And I was a HUGE Lawson fan.

[CWood21]

10 hours ago, {Family Ghost} said:

Getting the players here is part of it .. evaluating them properly and keeping them is the other part.  They both showed themselves to be good players in GB ... odd for Ted Thompson to let good players get out of town .. especially when neither got break the bank deals.  We've drafted 3 cornerbacks with high picks after the loss of Hayward, and we still might not have that position solidified.  With Burnett being a free agent this year they could have been proactive and inked Hyde to give themselves some cover, but they didn't and ended up spending another high pick on Josh Jones.  All these DB draft picks to replace guys that are now pro bowl players is a bad look .. especially when we could have used some of those picks on pass rush while keeping a couple good players on board at affordable deals. Unfortunately the Packers didn't value Hyde as anything more than a jack of all trades type, although the guy did seem to be a favorite among the coaching staff.  Buffalo saw something more apparently and swept in an added themselves a pro bowl safety.  You can go thru the list of Ted's decision making the past few years .. it's a not a pretty picture ... lots of mistakes.  The guy is dropping the ball more than Marty B.

They did?  Hyde was jack-of-all-trades, king of none DB in Green Bay and certainly wasn't the player he showed in Buffalo.  Does that fall on the FO or Dom Capers?  Absolutely not. Because nobody in their right mind was going to insert Hyde into the starting lineup ahead of HHCD coming off the season he did or Morgan Burnett.  I really can't believe we're having this discussion, and I think that's only because HHCD had a down year.  If HHCD continued to play like he did last year, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[TheOnlyThing]

2 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Julius Peppers departure was a mutual decision, and he himself already stated he was going back to Carolina when his contract expired.  

Jason Wilde has been going on and on on ESPN Wisconsin about how Peppers and Rodgers were both miffed that the Pack never contacted Peppers after the season ended and stated that Peppers would have resigned with GB for the same contract he received in Carolina.

On December 15, 2017, he also wrote the following in the Wisconsin State Journal: "Among the players who were surprised and disappointed when Packers general manager Ted Thompson didn’t even make Peppers an offer in free agency last March was quarterback Aaron Rodgers." http://host.madison.com/wsj/sports/football/professional/packers-julius-peppers-making-plays-in-carolina-just-like-he/article_be51ce1f-edf1-5da7-aaa5-a778b2763a5c.html

So I've got to ask, do you have any evidence that Ted had absolutely no shot of resigning Peppers? Or is this just the latest example of saying stuff to make Ted look better?

[Packerraymond]

2 hours ago, CWood21 said:

This.  Hayward is the only one you can legitimately argue that the Packers were unwise in letting go.  Julius Peppers departure was a mutual decision, and he himself already stated he was going back to Carolina when his contract expired.  Would he have helped the pass rush in Green Bay?  Absolutely, but so would have Von Miller, Justin Houston, and several other players.  But Peppers wanted to go back to Carolina, not remain in Green Bay.  As for Hyde, we saw what he was at cornerback and he wasn't considered an upgrade at safety over HHCD (coming off a really good year) or Morgan Burnett.  So you're paying him good money to be your nickel back.  That's not something he was good at.

This is the first I've heard about Peppers being "mutual." When he signed with CAR I heard we never contacted Peppers regarding a contract extension.

I don't hold Hayward or Hyde against Ted. Anyone who does has an opinion I don't care to argue because they are clearly using hindsight in their argument. Peppers, I absolutely do hold against Ted.

[incognito_man]

11 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

This is the first I've heard about Peppers being "mutual." When he signed with CAR I heard we never contacted Peppers regarding a contract extension.

I don't hold Hayward or Hyde against Ted. Anyone who does has an opinion I don't care to argue because they are clearly using hindsight in their argument. Peppers, I absolutely do hold against Ted.

good no-signing IMO. Saved us $6million in a throw-away season

[AlexGreen#20]

Does anybody think Hyde is going to continue to put up the kind of stats that he has so far in Buffalo?

I'm genuinely curious, because DBs have these kinds of seasons occasionally. Ball just seems to come their way as  a matter of luck. You have to think it will trend out.

 

[cannondale]

31 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Does anybody think Hyde is going to continue to put up the kind of stats that he has so far in Buffalo?

I'm genuinely curious, because DBs have these kinds of seasons occasionally. Ball just seems to come their way as  a matter of luck. You have to think it will trend out.

 

I'm going to say yes because the ball had a way of finding him in Green Bay as well. Luck, and a solid surrounding cast are certainly factors, but being smart, saavy, and all of those other intangibles seem to sum up Hyde. His sum seems to be greater that his parts. We've all seen or played with guys like that whether it be in high school, college, or the playground. They always seem to be in the right place at the right time. Even in returning punts he showed a knack for just making plays. You just have to do your best to cover up his deficiencies

[{Family Ghost}]

13 hours ago, CWood21 said:

They did?  Hyde was jack-of-all-trades, king of none DB in Green Bay and certainly wasn't the player he showed in Buffalo.  Does that fall on the FO or Dom Capers?  Absolutely not. Because nobody in their right mind was going to insert Hyde into the starting lineup ahead of HHCD coming off the season he did or Morgan Burnett.  I really can't believe we're having this discussion, and I think that's only because HHCD had a down year.  If HHCD continued to play like he did last year, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I haven't really included Haha in my thinking .. my main thought was that with Burnett being a free agent this season it would have made sense to sign Hyde last year as some cover in case Burnett walked.  Haha though is also looking at a 5th year option season if I recall right, so a Hyde signing could have given us even further cover if they were to let him go.  Not that they plan on passing on his option, but Haha had a disappointing season.  Hyde was also a really good player in GB .. excellent ball skills.  Our coaches kept playing him in the slot, and his lack of speed was exposed quite often.  The Bills saw a guy that was a safety and they moved in, signed him, and got themselves a pro bowler out it.  Letting the Bills get this guy was out of character for a team that preaches drafting, developing, and then keeping their own.  

[squire12]

11 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

This is the first I've heard about Peppers being "mutual." When he signed with CAR I heard we never contacted Peppers regarding a contract extension.

I don't hold Hayward or Hyde against Ted. Anyone who does has an opinion I don't care to argue because they are clearly using hindsight in their argument. Peppers, I absolutely do hold against Ted.

 

11 hours ago, incognito_man said:

good no-signing IMO. Saved us $6million in a throw-away season

His pass rush abilities likely adds 2-3 victories and thus it is not a throw away season

[spilltray]

7 hours ago, {Family Ghost} said:

I haven't really included Haha in my thinking .. my main thought was that with Burnett being a free agent this season it would have made sense to sign Hyde last year as some cover in case Burnett walked.  Haha though is also looking at a 5th year option season if I recall right, so a Hyde signing could have given us even further cover if they were to let him go.  Not that they plan on passing on his option, but Haha had a disappointing season.  Hyde was also a really good player in GB .. excellent ball skills.  Our coaches kept playing him in the slot, and his lack of speed was exposed quite often.  The Bills saw a guy that was a safety and they moved in, signed him, and got themselves a pro bowler out it.  Letting the Bills get this guy was out of character for a team that preaches drafting, developing, and then keeping their own.  

I guess that depends on your view of Hyde. Instead they drafted Jones who I see as a better prospect and significantly cheaper than Hyde. Also I think even as a S Hyde is too limited athletically and can be exposed. Even with his performance I am not comfortable giving him a comparable deal.

 

Besides you don't make that offer "in case Burnett walks". You only make it if you've already decided you aren't going to offer him another deal.

[CWood21]

12 hours ago, {Family Ghost} said:

I haven't really included Haha in my thinking .. my main thought was that with Burnett being a free agent this season it would have made sense to sign Hyde last year as some cover in case Burnett walked.  Haha though is also looking at a 5th year option season if I recall right, so a Hyde signing could have given us even further cover if they were to let him go.  Not that they plan on passing on his option, but Haha had a disappointing season.  Hyde was also a really good player in GB .. excellent ball skills.  Our coaches kept playing him in the slot, and his lack of speed was exposed quite often.  The Bills saw a guy that was a safety and they moved in, signed him, and got themselves a pro bowler out it.  Letting the Bills get this guy was out of character for a team that preaches drafting, developing, and then keeping their own.  

Let's assume for a second that they opted to re-sign Micah Hyde.  We're paying $6M/year to have him play a utility DB role, one in which he played pretty poorly.  But they planned on moving him to safety full-time after the season.  That would have probably meant the Packers wouldn't have drafted Josh Jones thus freeing the Packers to select another player.  Hyde might have good ball skills, but he was always a lackluster fit as he wasn't a good enough athlete to play corner and didn't display those great instincts that he showed in Buffalo.  It was a good signing for Buffalo in hindsight, but at the time the Packers had no reason to invest that kind of money into a player who had been an average player at best during his career in Green Bay.

[cannondale]

Not so much about re-signing or not - it's about how you have two defensive backs totally mis-used or their talent totally not utilized or not recognized. Then spend one whole draft and a first rounder of another and maybe even part of a third trying to replace what you already had. Kind of tough to draft EDGE guys when we are re-drafting a secondary due to incompetence. Inexcusable. Kind of puts a damper on the whole draft and develop concept if you are going to fail the develop part of things. This is not just some minor little glitch. How many other guys talents are wasting away ? If there's two there has to be more.

I realize we are stacked with a plethora of talent on the defensive side of the ball and have no need for 2 Pro Bowl DB's on the roster in a pass happy league, so maybe its ok to blow this off as the players fault for some reason. Hayward flat out told us what's going on. So did Woodson. 

[{Family Ghost}]

I'm going to be so disappointed if Capers isn't fired, but there is still a strong chance that he will survive the season.  He's had similar results in several past seasons and has managed to avoid the chopping block, so why would this season be any different?  McCarthy isn't under any real pressure to make that move.  In a recent chat Aaron Nagler brought up a good point in saying that if McCarthy really thought it was all a Dom problem he would have fired the guy years ago.  Nagler also added that he thought McCarthy's decision not to fire Capers might signal that he feels it's more of a Ted and talent acquisition issue than anything Capers has or hasn't done.  I think there might be something to that.  For the record Nagler does think that this is the year Dom gets fired, so I guess we will see.

[CWood21]

13 hours ago, cannondale said:

Not so much about re-signing or not - it's about how you have two defensive backs totally mis-used or their talent totally not utilized or not recognized. Then spend one whole draft and a first rounder of another and maybe even part of a third trying to replace what you already had. Kind of tough to draft EDGE guys when we are re-drafting a secondary due to incompetence. Inexcusable. Kind of puts a damper on the whole draft and develop concept if you are going to fail the develop part of things. This is not just some minor little glitch. How many other guys talents are wasting away ? If there's two there has to be more.

I realize we are stacked with a plethora of talent on the defensive side of the ball and have no need for 2 Pro Bowl DB's on the roster in a pass happy league, so maybe its ok to blow this off as the players fault for some reason. Hayward flat out told us what's going on. So did Woodson. 

Except there was no way that the Packers either could have known Micah Hyde would thrive as a single-high safety OR relegated HHCD or Morgan Burnett to the 3rd safety role.  This is a glass half-full, half-empty discussion.  And quite frankly, the latter seems to be more dishonest.  IF the Packers had re-signed Hyde to the same deal that he got from Buffalo and started over HHCD or Morgan Burnett, fans would be at Lambeau with pitchforks.  It'd be like Patriots getting irrationally upset if Jimmy G ends up being a franchise QB.  It'd be one thing if the Packers had been starting the likes of Jerron McMillian or M.D. Jennings instead of Hyde, but that isn't the case.  We had two really good safeties that the Packers had a TON of comfort with them.  That happens, no reason to cry over spilled milk.