Humble_Beast Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 23 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said: There's still some very nice talent out there. There's no QBs worthy of being drafted on day 2 imo. For me that leaves: RT and/or RG CB DT I think Rattler is worth a 3rd. Pratt might sneak into the 3rd too. I could see either one being drafted by us. I think this team is high on Munford. ideally round 2: BPA again round 3: G or CB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agarcia34 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 lol next day thoughts… Broncos really took Bo Nix. Will never stop laughing at that one 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 11 minutes ago, Styrian Raider said: Come on, you're better than that. Don't say that I'm happy about the pick, or how the draft went so far. Just don't act like there is no talent left in the draft that we can pick up to improve our roster. I base it on what I see and on history. We're not assembling a fantasy team. We don't have a good QB. We can't block. We can barely cover. Our only needle moving move in FA was a DT- a position much like WR where it's very much boom or bust with high priced FAs while we all but ignored the OL and secondary. We spent a high 2nd rounder on a TE last year, on a guy everyone collectively creamed over because he was a "stud". Luke Getsy doesn't historically get production from multiple TEs, people are literally making that up. Tom Telesco didn't come in under everyone's good graces, and this was a Chargers move. Act like problems aren't problems, add cherries on top, get excited, wet fart ensues. Most 1st round TEs don't even get second contracts with the team that drafted them. That's a production issue. Will Bowers be so much more productive than Mayer to warrant it? I sincerely doubt it. The justifications are hyperbole and platitudes- "He's BPA", "He's the best TE to come out in decades", "He's going to be a weapon"- notice what each and every one of those are? Subjective assumptions being used as factual statements. I have nothing against Brock Bowers. But the move was the type of giddy move one makes who plays too much fantasy ball instead of actually building a team. We could have all the nifty weapons in the world, it isn't going to matter without a QB or OL. We've done that before. We literally just did it last year. Everyone can freely toot the BPA horn all they want, we aren't a team that should be double dipping on luxuries like we're the Bills or Chiefs or whoever just looking for that extra sizzle. Adams' production likely just took a designed hit- and it was already lackluster and not looking great for this year. We could've moved him, but we're not going to. Wasted picks right there. Meyers' production likely just dipped too. Tucker's production probably just got largely erased. Guarantee you he doesn't "break out". Mayer just got deleted based on how Getsy has used TEs. Neither Minshew nor AOC are throwing for 4000+. Not going to happen. Not with how AP has gone on record saying exactly what he wants offensively and not with those 2 at QB. We've overloaded on pass catchers for a team not built to throw a lot and a regime that doesn't even seem to want to throw a lot. And here's the even bigger kicker- Getsy comes from a history of better running than passing. The way GBs offense ran through Jones and Dillon belies this. They were efficient years for Rodgers, but not exactly banner ones. Look, if we were a team with a legit QB, a HC wanting a high powered offense, and an innovative OC known for subpackages and getting great use out of multiple TE sets (dare I say....the guy we just fired last year), I would be singing a different tune. Had we hired Harbaugh or kept Kliff, it makes sense. Hell, had we signed Kirk Cousins it makes sense. But we didn't. We got the guys we got, and their own words, schemes, and philosophies now don't match their actions and decisions- a tell tale sign of what many worried about: they're winging it. I'm not anti-Bowers. I don't trust that this group of coaches will use him and the rest of the roster in ways that will make it worth it. You can sign Patrick Mahomes, draft Bowers, sign Jordan Jefferson and make all the FF nerds super happy. You run a Wishbone offense, you're not getting any anywhere. That's my beef- it's not with Bowers. It's the coaching staff and how I think it's going to play out regardless of how talented he may be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 Just now, agarcia34 said: lol next day thoughts… Broncos really took Bo Nix. Will never stop laughing at that one Broncos taking Nix is lol worthy. Falcons taking Penix is just a head scratcher. PFF's feed did DeJean dirty because they announced him as SFs pick before retracting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 35 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said: There's still some very nice talent out there. There's no QBs worthy of being drafted on day 2 imo. For me that leaves: RT and/or RG CB DT RT gotta be the pick at 44. They're dropping like flies. It's a deep class, but not endless. RG, CB. DT have more lifeline left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agarcia34 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 Today will show us how the Raiders really feel about Munford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styrian Raider Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 7 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said: I base it on what I see and on history. We're not assembling a fantasy team. We don't have a good QB. We can't block. We can barely cover. Our only needle moving move in FA was a DT- a position much like WR where it's very much boom or bust with high priced FAs while we all but ignored the OL and secondary. We spent a high 2nd rounder on a TE last year, on a guy everyone collectively creamed over because he was a "stud". Luke Getsy doesn't historically get production from multiple TEs, people are literally making that up. Tom Telesco didn't come in under everyone's good graces, and this was a Chargers move. Act like problems aren't problems, add cherries on top, get excited, wet fart ensues. Most 1st round TEs don't even get second contracts with the team that drafted them. That's a production issue. Will Bowers be so much more productive than Mayer to warrant it? I sincerely doubt it. The justifications are hyperbole and platitudes- "He's BPA", "He's the best TE to come out in decades", "He's going to be a weapon"- notice what each and every one of those are? Subjective assumptions being used as factual statements. I have nothing against Brock Bowers. But the move was the type of giddy move one makes who plays too much fantasy ball instead of actually building a team. We could have all the nifty weapons in the world, it isn't going to matter without a QB or OL. We've done that before. We literally just did it last year. Everyone can freely toot the BPA horn all they want, we aren't a team that should be double dipping on luxuries like we're the Bills or Chiefs or whoever just looking for that extra sizzle. Adams' production likely just took a designed hit- and it was already lackluster and not looking great for this year. We could've moved him, but we're not going to. Wasted picks right there. Meyers' production likely just dipped too. Tucker's production probably just got largely erased. Guarantee you he doesn't "break out". Mayer just got deleted based on how Getsy has used TEs. Neither Minshew nor AOC are throwing for 4000+. Not going to happen. Not with how AP has gone on record saying exactly what he wants offensively and not with those 2 at QB. We've overloaded on pass catchers for a team not built to throw a lot and a regime that doesn't even seem to want to throw a lot. And here's the even bigger kicker- Getsy comes from a history of better running than passing. The way GBs offense ran through Jones and Dillon belies this. They were efficient years for Rodgers, but not exactly banner ones. Look, if we were a team with a legit QB, a HC wanting a high powered offense, and an innovative OC known for subpackages and getting great use out of multiple TE sets (dare I say....the guy we just fired last year), I would be singing a different tune. Had we hired Harbaugh or kept Kliff, it makes sense. Hell, had we signed Kirk Cousins it makes sense. But we didn't. We got the guys we got, and their own words, schemes, and philosophies now don't match their actions and decisions- a tell tale sign of what many worried about: they're winging it. I'm not anti-Bowers. I don't trust that this group of coaches will use him and the rest of the roster in ways that will make it worth it. You can sign Patrick Mahomes, draft Bowers, sign Jordan Jefferson and make all the FF nerds super happy. You run a Wishbone offense, you're not getting any anywhere. That's my beef- it's not with Bowers. It's the coaching staff and how I think it's going to play out regardless of how talented he may be. I don't really get what your point is tbh. I didn't defend the pick at all - I just said the draft isn't over. You talk a lot about not having a QB in place. But how can anyone predict that statistically 50% of the first 12 picks are QBs? Would a trade with the Texans or the Giants have been possible for JJ, Nix or Penix? And what had we have to give up for it? Would it be worth it? Same goes for FA - 180 Mio for Cousins with 100 guaranteed, is that what we really want? Or who would've been a better Option? Trading for Fields or signing Russ? How would a biding war with the Vikings have ended? Would the Jets trade with an AFC team? I think you're bragging more about things, that we didn't have any realistic, better QB options than about the Bowers pick just to produce more text. I'm scared that Bowers turns out to be Kyle Pitts 2.0 - and I already said that. But there are still RT, CBs availaible that would improve our roster overall, so no need to panic imho. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 18 minutes ago, agarcia34 said: lol next day thoughts… Broncos really took Bo Nix. Will never stop laughing at that one You have no idea how thankful I was that they did that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 2 minutes ago, agarcia34 said: Today will show us how the Raiders really feel about Munford. Agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 1 minute ago, Styrian Raider said: I don't really get what your point is tbh. I didn't defend the pick at all - I just said the draft isn't over. You talk a lot about not having a QB in place. But how can anyone predict that statistically 50% of the first 12 picks are QBs? Would a trade with the Texans or the Giants have been possible for JJ, Nix or Penix? And what had we have to give up for it? Would it be worth it? Same goes for FA - 180 Mio for Cousins with 100 guaranteed, is that what we really want? Or who would've been a better Option? Trading for Fields or signing Russ? How would a biding war with the Vikings have ended? Would the Jets trade with an AFC team? I think you're bragging more about things, that we didn't have any realistic, better QB options than about the Bowers pick just to produce more text. I'm scared that Bowers turns out to be Kyle Pitts 2.0 - and I already said that. But there are still RT, CBs availaible that would improve our roster overall, so no need to panic imho. My point is it was a pointless luxury pick being made by people who shouldn't be making luxury picks and aren't likely to utilize said picks correctly anyway. In regard to QB + possible trades: Telesco himself said they didn't try very hard to move up. That tells me they were Daniels or bust. That's a problem. That was a problem with AP already and they did zilch to dispell it as a concern. If we had a QB, great. We don't. And even if we couldn't land one- then don't make luxury picks on pass catchers we're not going to put to good use. In re: Bragging: There's nothing to brag about. I think it was a shortsighted pick based on the facts we have available, including but not limited to: • AP wanting a smashmouth offense. • Lacking a QB to spread the ball around in the first place. • Getsy rarely utilizing multiple receiving options ti much effect. • The likelihood that Brock is even put in position to justify the pick compared to what Mayer could have done. • Telesco saying they didn't really even try hard to move up. It all points to various concerns people had about AP and Telesco individually and collectively, such as AP's single-minded infatuation with "his" guys and Telesco's penchant for building up rosters with all the firepower you could hope for but ignoring the fundamentals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 20 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said: You have no idea how thankful I was that they did that The only reason I don't like it is that it means we definitely won't get to play against Zach Wilson this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickButera Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 24 minutes ago, Styrian Raider said: I don't really get what your point is tbh. I didn't defend the pick at all - I just said the draft isn't over. You talk a lot about not having a QB in place. But how can anyone predict that statistically 50% of the first 12 picks are QBs? Would a trade with the Texans or the Giants have been possible for JJ, Nix or Penix? And what had we have to give up for it? Would it be worth it? Same goes for FA - 180 Mio for Cousins with 100 guaranteed, is that what we really want? Or who would've been a better Option? Trading for Fields or signing Russ? How would a biding war with the Vikings have ended? Would the Jets trade with an AFC team? I think you're bragging more about things, that we didn't have any realistic, better QB options than about the Bowers pick just to produce more text. I'm scared that Bowers turns out to be Kyle Pitts 2.0 - and I already said that. But there are still RT, CBs availaible that would improve our roster overall, so no need to panic imho. To be fair, you say that now, but hindsight always tells a different story. We were all singing that same tune last year, but realistically we *could* have traded up and gotten Stroud, (hell, Zeigler wanted to!) it would have cost a fortune but history shows it would have been worth it. At the time however, we sung the "well it costs too much and realistically it's out of our control." No, we could have pulled triggers to control more and made different moves, we just evaluated the risk as too high. And in the end, this is the problem, YEARS have gone by and the risk has always been deemed "too high" to try to get a young franchise QB....and here we sit years later with the same problem. At some point, we need to start pulling triggers or we can't win the war. ....so to speak. I like Bowers, a lot. I am also annually getting depressed at our QB situation at the same time after every offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersForever Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 (edited) Was not expecting Bowers at all, but can't argue that we got incredible value at #13. Going forward, I'm down for: Round 2: Best available CB Round 3: Blake Fisher Round 4: Michael Pratt or best available LB (Marist Liufau?) Round 5: Best available DL Round 6: BPA Round 7: BPA There's also a chance AOC takes a step forward this season (assuming he's working hard as per reports). JMD and Co didn't do him any favors prior to getting booted out of LV, and he still came in and did better than one would expect of a 4th Round rookie thrown into the fire. Edited April 26 by RaidersForever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raidr4life Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 (edited) 4 hours ago, Dessie said: Who would you be targeting ? Jpj, he's a 1st round talent. Trade 112 for Greg Newsome. 77. Blake Fisher 100. Maybe a QB. Edited April 26 by raidr4life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersForever Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 If this is true, you better hope Arthur Blank doesn't fire you before then, lol. This was by far the most head-scratching decision of Round 1: Falcons GM Suggests Michael Penix Jr. Could Sit '4 or 5 Years' Behind Kirk Cousins | News, Scores, Highlights, Stats, and Rumors | Bleacher Report Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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