2.45 - Edgerrin Cooper [LB; Texas A&M]

[incognito_man]

17 minutes ago, spilltray said:

The value of off ball LB varies quite a bit scheme to scheme.

This.

Combined with the obvious intention to remake the mentality of this defense. Both OBLBs we got are attack mentality guys who can slash. Cooper in particular can turn speed into power frequently. He plays with such violence. And our staff kept bringing that up about the class in general. Bullard fits that bill, too. 

So I think it kinda just happened to work out that there were guys who fit our athletic and mental preferences at a position we needed bodies at. The draft kinda just fell where two of them were atop our board in the first 100 picks.

[spilltray]

Btw it doesn't get mentioned enough but 8 sacks for an off ball LB? That's rare!

[{Family Ghost}]

1 hour ago, spilltray said:

Btw it doesn't get mentioned enough but 8 sacks for an off ball LB? That's rare!

It's kind of their scheme that created a lot of opportunities, but he's got the wheels to close with the best of them.  Hopefully Hafley continues to take advantage of his athletic gifts.

[R T]

17 hours ago, packfanfb said:

You and I have had our discussions about OBLB value and frankly after years on this site, my view has moved some towards the "it's a less valuable position." That's one of the reasons I was shocked that we double dipped with 2 top 100 picks. 

Then I thought about it more and realized this is an area where Gute isn't TT. I think we have enough of a sample size now to know Gute gives OBLB a lot more value overall than TT did. 

He drafted Quay at 22. He paid Campbell a boatload after one good season. Now he goes back to back OBLB in the 2nd and 3rd. I never thought he'd do that but the signs were there. 

TT drafted Hawk 5th overall. 

Whether it is TT or Gutes they are bringing in players that best fit the scheme the coaches are running. With a Pettine run defense you would never waste draft capital on an off the ball LB. In Barry's defense they are a key part of the success, and the positional value is much higher. Guessing the same applies to Hafley's scheme. This isn't about what Gutes wants or TT wanted, they are/were selfless individual doing what is best for the Packers.   

[packfanfb]

15 minutes ago, R T said:

TT drafted Hawk 5th overall. 

Whether it is TT or Gutes they are bringing in players that best fit the scheme the coaches are running. With a Pettine run defense you would never waste draft capital on an off the ball LB. In Barry's defense they are a key part of the success, and the positional value is much higher. Guessing the same applies to Hafley's scheme. This isn't about what Gutes wants or TT wanted, they are/were selfless individual doing what is best for the Packers.   

I'm just pointing to the proverbial pudding here. TT drafted Hawk (1st) and Hodge (3rd) in 2006, his 2nd year as GM, IIRC. He never drafted another OBLB in the top 3 rounds for the next 11 years. 

Gute has now conducted 7 drafts as the GM. During that time, he's drafted Burks (3rd), Walker (1st), Cooper (2nd) and Hopper (3rd). That's 3 out of 7 drafts he's gone with an OBLB in the top 100. I chalk that up to a bit more than he's just providing players to his DC. Overall, more value is being assigned to the position in terms of considering "when" and "how" to add to that room. 

[Packerraymond]

Off ball LBs are far more important in a 4-3 than in a 3-4. Simple math says in base I have 5 gaps accounted for in a 3-4 and only 4 accounted for in a 4-3 (unless you two-gap which doesn't sound like we will). You also have 3 players 290+ on the front in a 3-4 base and only 2 in an even front. You need guys that can see the ball, get to the ball and make the play.

Only thing that concerns me about Gute's stance is the pressure it will put on Clark and Slaton to hold up the IOL. We all saw in Dallas what happens when your DL don't hold up the IOL and you've sacrificed size for speed in your LB group, to the tune of 100+ yards, 5.6 YPC and 3TDs.

[packfanfb]

4 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Off ball LBs are far more important in a 4-3 than in a 3-4. Simple math says in base I have 5 gaps accounted for in a 3-4 and only 4 accounted for in a 4-3 (unless you two-gap which doesn't sound like we will). You also have 3 players 290+ on the front in a 3-4 base and only 2 in an even front. You need guys that can see the ball, get to the ball and make the play.

Only thing that concerns me about Gute's stance is the pressure it will put on Clark and Slaton to hold up the IOL. We all saw in Dallas what happens when your DL don't hold up the IOL and you've sacrificed size for speed in your LB group, to the tune of 100+ yards, 5.6 YPC and 3TDs.

Yea at least we aren't playing a safety at ILB like Dallas did. 

In SF's scheme (which it seems Hafley is trying to run to an extent), they get away with undersized LBs against the run (both Warner and Greenlaw are around the 230s), they are just damn good. I think the size is fine as long as your LBs are good players. That remains to be seen with our guys. 

Edited April 29 by packfanfb

[vegas492]

Betcha our DC pointed at this Cooper and said "Me Want!".

Here is what I hope.  I hope we do not let him think...like at all.  Let Quay think.  I want Cooper to have a clear assignment.  Go get the ball.  See it, run to it.  If you are in coverage, get deep, see it and go get it.  

He's a monster when he can attack.  Get those big bodies in front of him to keep him and Quay clean and let them both eat.

And the dude simply needs some reps on the EDGE or blitzing the gaps.

He's no thinker, so let's just turn him loose.

Sidenote:  pretty thrilled to have two loose cannons at ILB.  I just hope we don't coach the "dawg" out of him and Quay.

[vegas492]

Saw where he is getting #56.  Legend incoming.....

[Old Guy]

On 4/26/2024 at 8:29 PM, Leader said:

Matt Schneidman -  Cooper led Texas A&M in tackles, TFLs, sacks and forced fumbles. Only prospect in the draft to do that. Aggies had a top 10 defense in the country.

 

Is this dude a poor man's Micah Parsons? Sacks, fumbles, TFL. He sounds to me like a poor man's Micah Parsons. 

[Brat&Beer]

33 minutes ago, Old Guy said:

Is this dude a poor man's Micah Parsons? Sacks, fumbles, TFL. He sounds to me like a poor man's Micah Parsons. 

I've been thinking the same thing. Parsons was originally considered to be an off the ball linebacker who showed great pass rushing skills.  It wasn't until his second year he became a full time edge rusher. 

[skibrett15]

5 minutes ago, Brat&Beer said:

I've been thinking the same thing. Parsons was originally considered to be an off the ball linebacker who showed great pass rushing skills.  It wasn't until his second year he became a full time edge rusher. 

this guy is not a pass rusher though.  More of a guy who got sacks on blitzes.

More Nick Barnett than KGB.

Nobody is Micah Parsons.

[Lodestar]

5 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

this guy is not a pass rusher though.  More of a guy who got sacks on blitzes.

More Nick Barnett than KGB.

Nobody is Micah Parsons.

Yeah, everyone wants a Parsons, but that guy is a unicorn. He's also 15 pounds heavier than Cooper.

It looked to me like most of Cooper's sacks were plays where he was spying the QB but then saw an angle and just swallowed the guy up. If you want to dream big on Cooper, you hope that he can become our Fred Warner.

[skibrett15]

1 minute ago, Lodestar said:

Yeah, everyone wants a Parsons, but that guy is a unicorn. He's also 15 pounds heavier than Cooper.

It looked to me like most of Cooper's sacks were plays where he was spying the QB but then saw an angle and just swallowed the guy up. If you want to dream big on Cooper, you hope that he can become our Fred Warner.

it does feel like in the heydey of the 4-3 when teams ran a ton of base defense, Cooper would be seen closer to Luke Kuechly than a 2nd round pick.

This could turn out to be a really good value if the NFL shifts more toward 21/12/22 personnel and away from 11.

[vegas492]

3 minutes ago, Lodestar said:

Yeah, everyone wants a Parsons, but that guy is a unicorn. He's also 15 pounds heavier than Cooper.

It looked to me like most of Cooper's sacks were plays where he was spying the QB but then saw an angle and just swallowed the guy up. If you want to dream big on Cooper, you hope that he can become our Fred Warner.

Nothing on film looks like Parsons in the NFL.  Nothing.

It's exactly like you and others have stated.

The only thing Cooper has that looks like Parsons is a production stat line, absent of viewing any of the clips.

Now, that being said?  I don't think anyone knew that Parsons was Parsons when he was drafted.  It was opportunity that created him.  So I'll add that maybe there is some Parsons to Cooper, we shall see if he gets opportunity.   Many here (and not me) felt that Quay may have some EDGE qualities and I think he's taken a few snaps there and done okay for himself.  You just never know.