Gravedigger93 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 5 hours ago, {Family Ghost} said: Pete Dougherty might be a little wrong on this one. I see a guy like AJ Hawk being a lock for the Packers Hall of Fame at some point. It's not like there is a super high bar to getting in there. This is from his chat today. Nick: Two Packers defensive players that where a key factor during their last Super Bowl run were Clay Mathhews and A.J. Hawk. Are they in the Packers Hall of Fame and, if not, why? And do you think they will make the NFL HOF? Pete Dougherty: Neither is in the Packers Hall of Fame. I don’t think Hawk rises to that level. He had a nice, long (nine years) career with them, was durable (only two games missed because of injury). But I don’t think his play rose to the level of belonging in the team’s Hall of Fame. He was a solid player, I wouldn’t go any further than that. All in all, I’d say he wasn’t much better than an average starter. Matthews will be in the team’s Hall of Fame at some point, can’t imagine he won’t be. I don’t know if the Hall has a mandatory waiting period for eligibility (the Pro Football Hall of Fame’s is five years after the player retires), but Matthews left the team after the 2018 season and retired after the 2019 season, so he hasn’t been out for very long. I have to think that’s why he’s not in yet. The Packers Hall had a reputation for years and years of often inducting players because they were fan favorites and might increase ticket sales for the banquet, etc., rather than for how well they played. But the selection committee has raised the bar in the past 15 years or so. I don’t think Hawk clears it. Matthews clearly does, and I suspect he’ll get in soon. He doesn't even know the rules of eligibility, but wants to decide who gets in and who doesn't. What a clown. For me both are locks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted March 8 Author Share Posted March 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lodestar Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kampfgeist Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 On 3/7/2024 at 4:40 PM, HighCalebR said: Its the team hall. The guy leads the team in a fairly major statistical category. Was a Captain for 1/4 of the Super Bowls the team claims. Was the center of the defense for a decade. Thats a significant part of the history of the team. Plenty of room in the hall for that guy. Whats the point of leaving him out? Not really a hill I care to die on. I don't actually care whether he makes it or not, I have nothing against the man other than while I think he was a capable player, I don't think he was special. He wasn't what one would hope for from the #4 pick but he wasn't a bust either, he had a long capable career. I happen to think that Blake Martinez was a better linebacker and while Hawk amassed enough tackles over time, Blake Martinez was leading the NFL. But I don't want to go down that rabbit hole any further -- this is one of those topics that in order to prove my point I have to try to argue that Hawk sucked - and I'm not willing to do that (kind of like the Lebron James vs Michael Jordan GOAT debate - in order to prove one is the best and the other is only #2, someone always tells the reason why the other isn't very good) Packers are more than welcome to make the honor a participation trophy if they care to. Kudos for availability and longevity. Matthews, however, was just a special player - his inclusion is a must Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighCalebR Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 2 hours ago, Lodestar said: I said the same thing when I rolled the **** out of my ankle trying to head off some cattle. Maybe he rolled his ankle real bad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighCalebR Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Kampfgeist said: Not really a hill I care to die on. I don't actually care whether he makes it or not, I have nothing against the man other than while I think he was a capable player, I don't think he was special. He wasn't what one would hope for from the #4 pick but he wasn't a bust either, he had a long capable career. I happen to think that Blake Martinez was a better linebacker and while Hawk amassed enough tackles over time, Blake Martinez was leading the NFL. But I don't want to go down that rabbit hole any further -- this is one of those topics that in order to prove my point I have to try to argue that Hawk sucked - and I'm not willing to do that (kind of like the Lebron James vs Michael Jordan GOAT debate - in order to prove one is the best and the other is only #2, someone always tells the reason why the other isn't very good) Packers are more than welcome to make the honor a participation trophy if they care to. Kudos for availability and longevity. Matthews, however, was just a special player - his inclusion is a must You don't have to die on any hill. It's just an offseason discussion. He was leading the team for a good chunk of those 8 years. Health longevity and production should absolutely be recognized. It's a sports memoriam. I don't think you can tell the story of the NFL 2010s without Frank Gore. Even though he wasn't the "best RB" any year he played. AJ is to the Packers what Gore is to the NFL. If you make it nearly as exclusive as the NFL hall why even have a team hall? Edited March 8 by HighCalebR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kampfgeist Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 13 minutes ago, HighCalebR said: If you make it nearly as exclusive as the NFL hall why even have a team hall? To recognize greatness, not goodness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighCalebR Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Kampfgeist said: To recognize greatness, not goodness All time leader of the Packers isn't a great accomplishment? Pretty storied franchise.. Edited March 8 by HighCalebR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kampfgeist Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 14 minutes ago, HighCalebR said: All time leader of the Packers isn't a great accomplishment? Pretty storied franchise.. Sure it's an accomplishment. He was a very capable linebacker for 10 years. For comparisons Blake Martinez averaged 128 tackles over his 4 years in GB (which included a 13 gm 69 tackle rookie season - 69/144/144/155) AJ Hawk had two seasons that he reached 120 total tackles and 5 at 90 or below. You previously mentioned Frank Gore - here is a list of his NFL and Franchise awards/records. There are a lot of them, incl for being the 1st ever or for being Top 5 ever. Career awards and highlights[edit] 5× Pro Bowl (2006, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013) 5x NFC Offensive Player of the Week Second-team All-Pro (2006) NFC Champion (2012) PFWA All-NFC (2006) PFWA Most Improved Player of the Year (2006)[208] 10,000 Rushing Yards Club 2016 Art Rooney Award for "outstanding sportsmanship on the playing field, including fair play, respect for opponents, and integrity in competition".[209] Most consecutive seasons with at least five touchdowns: 11 – tied with Terrell Owens, Marvin Harrison, Tim Brown, Cris Carter, Jerry Rice, and Don Hutson First player in NFL history with 12 consecutive 1,200-yards from scrimmage seasons.[210] One of five RBs in NFL history with at least nine 1,000-yard seasons, joining Emmitt Smith, Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, and Curtis Martin.[211] One of four RBs in NFL history with 15,000 career rushing yards, joining Emmitt Smith, Walter Payton, and Barry Sanders. Third all-time in career rushing yards.[212] NFL records[edit] Most seasons with 1,200 yards from scrimmage: 12[213] Most consecutive seasons with at least 500 yards rushing: 16[214] Most consecutive seasons with at least 600 yards rushing: 14[215] Most consecutive seasons with at least 700 yards rushing: 13 (tied with Emmitt Smith)[216] Most career games by an NFL running back: 241 49ers franchise records[edit] Most rushing yards in a career: 11,073[217] Most rushing yards in a game: 212 (Week 11, 2006)[218] Most 100-yard games in a season: 9 (2006)[219] Most rushing yards in a three-game span: 505 (Weeks 10–12, 2006)[220] Most consecutive games with 100 yards: 5 (Weeks 4–9, 2011)[221] Most rushing yards in a season: 1,695 (2006)[222] Most scrimmage yards in a season: 2,180 (2006)[223] Wiki doesn't really have a corresponding list of accomplishments for AJ Hawk. Here are some I researched - what can be added, I seriously don't know? 3rd Place AP Rookie of the Year 1 Pro Bowl Member of Super Bowl winning team Franchise leader in tackles #83 Career solo tackles in NFL (since 1990) #107 Career combined tackles in NFL (since 1990) ? Wouldn't be surprised if there were some community-based accomplishments - and I don't want to minimize that aspect of his career Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighCalebR Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Kampfgeist said: Sure it's an accomplishment. He was a very capable linebacker for 10 years. For comparisons Blake Martinez averaged 128 tackles over his 4 years in GB (which included a 13 gm 69 tackle rookie season - 69/144/144/155) AJ Hawk had two seasons that he reached 120 total tackles and 5 at 90 or below. You previously mentioned Frank Gore - here is a list of his NFL and Franchise awards/records. There are a lot of them, incl for being the 1st ever or for being Top 5 ever. Career awards and highlights[edit] 5× Pro Bowl (2006, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013) 5x NFC Offensive Player of the Week Second-team All-Pro (2006) NFC Champion (2012) PFWA All-NFC (2006) PFWA Most Improved Player of the Year (2006)[208] 10,000 Rushing Yards Club 2016 Art Rooney Award for "outstanding sportsmanship on the playing field, including fair play, respect for opponents, and integrity in competition".[209] Most consecutive seasons with at least five touchdowns: 11 – tied with Terrell Owens, Marvin Harrison, Tim Brown, Cris Carter, Jerry Rice, and Don Hutson First player in NFL history with 12 consecutive 1,200-yards from scrimmage seasons.[210] One of five RBs in NFL history with at least nine 1,000-yard seasons, joining Emmitt Smith, Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, and Curtis Martin.[211] One of four RBs in NFL history with 15,000 career rushing yards, joining Emmitt Smith, Walter Payton, and Barry Sanders. Third all-time in career rushing yards.[212] NFL records[edit] Most seasons with 1,200 yards from scrimmage: 12[213] Most consecutive seasons with at least 500 yards rushing: 16[214] Most consecutive seasons with at least 600 yards rushing: 14[215] Most consecutive seasons with at least 700 yards rushing: 13 (tied with Emmitt Smith)[216] Most career games by an NFL running back: 241 49ers franchise records[edit] Most rushing yards in a career: 11,073[217] Most rushing yards in a game: 212 (Week 11, 2006)[218] Most 100-yard games in a season: 9 (2006)[219] Most rushing yards in a three-game span: 505 (Weeks 10–12, 2006)[220] Most consecutive games with 100 yards: 5 (Weeks 4–9, 2011)[221] Most rushing yards in a season: 1,695 (2006)[222] Most scrimmage yards in a season: 2,180 (2006)[223] Wiki doesn't really have a corresponding list of accomplishments for AJ Hawk. Here are some I researched - what can be added, I seriously don't know? 3rd Place AP Rookie of the Year 1 Pro Bowl Member of Super Bowl winning team Franchise leader in tackles #83 Career solo tackles in NFL (since 1990) #107 Career combined tackles in NFL (since 1990) ? Wouldn't be surprised if there were some community-based accomplishments - and I don't want to minimize that aspect of his career That's a long post to say the guy played a long time and got a lot of carries as a 4.3 yard avg career RB. Lot of "mosts" in bulk stats. Yes, the man got fed and produced good enough to continue being fed. Yes Gore will make the NFL hall for his longevity being a starting RB. There were certainly RBs whos stars burned brighter for a shorter period of time who won't make the hall, like Blake to AJ. (Ahman Green) AJ will not make the NFL hall. Of course he won't. AJs accolades would be measured against the team, not the league. For all those awards, AJ would have them for team awards. If the Packers Hall was as strict as the leagues Hall there wouldn't be much to show off. If Blake could've maintained those numbers for another contract for sure he should be in the teams Hall (**** he'd have a shot at the leagues) because he'd lead the team all time. But he didn't. And he doesn't. Edited March 8 by HighCalebR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Penske Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 Are they like looking at a way to keep Bak around or why no release yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{Family Ghost} Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 (edited) 2 hours ago, Arthur Penske said: Are they like looking at a way to keep Bak around or why no release yet? I guess they are going to take things right up the March 13 deadline. Edited March 9 by {Family Ghost} Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HokieHigh Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 4 hours ago, HighCalebR said: You don't have to die on any hill. It's just an offseason discussion. He was leading the team for a good chunk of those 8 years. Health longevity and production should absolutely be recognized. It's a sports memoriam. I don't think you can tell the story of the NFL 2010s without Frank Gore. Even though he wasn't the "best RB" any year he played. AJ is to the Packers what Gore is to the NFL. If you make it nearly as exclusive as the NFL hall why even have a team hall? Team hall should be MORE exclusive 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kampfgeist Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 12 minutes ago, HokieHigh said: Team hall should be MORE exclusive This is how I feel. Names like Longwell came up earlier but I don't think the rallying cry for Hawk should be "Hey we let other mediocre guys in, why not him!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kampfgeist Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 3 hours ago, HighCalebR said: That's a long post to say the guy played a long time and got a lot of carries as a 4.3 yard avg career RB. Lot of "mosts" in bulk stats. Yes, the man got fed and produced good enough to continue being fed. Yes Gore will make the NFL hall for his longevity being a starting RB. There were certainly RBs whos stars burned brighter for a shorter period of time who won't make the hall, like Blake to AJ. (Ahman Green) AJ will not make the NFL hall. Of course he won't. AJs accolades would be measured against the team, not the league. For all those awards, AJ would have them for team awards. If the Packers Hall was as strict as the leagues Hall there wouldn't be much to show off. If Blake could've maintained those numbers for another contract for sure he should be in the teams Hall (**** he'd have a shot at the leagues) because he'd lead the team all time. But he didn't. And he doesn't. Long post to say Gore was consistently excellent for a very long time and ended top 5 in the entire NFL in multiple categories as well as 5 Pro Bowls and an All-Pro nod. Hawk had one really good season though (probably even top 10 in tackles that year, I didn't look it up) and if he gets into the Packers Hall of Fame I will stand up with a nice golf clap for him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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