Malcolm Butler situation

[J-ALL-DAY]

So all this talk of Butler being so bad, why did he play 98% of the snaps up to this point? Belichick just came to the conclusion that Butler sucks right before the Super Bowl? And if Butler sucks, what exactly is Rowe? What exactly is Bademosi? 

[DirtyDez]

20 minutes ago, Manny/Patrick said:

Might be the craziest story since the Robbins situation. 

Instead of Tijuana he went to Manitoba.

[BleedTheClock]

Just now, lancerman said:

Put it this way, I think Butler benefits a lot from exceptional coaching harnessing his raw talent and making sure he is always in the right place at the right time. I don't think he has the instincts of other top corners to just know and do what he is supposed to. Even on the pick in the Super Bowl, Browner had to basically tell him the play based off the formation. 

PFF is good, but they aren't in practice everyday.

...but you are? Look, you're a Patriots fan (for now, until there's a better team to "like") and know more about their players than me, but my argument is that Malcolm Butler sitting on the bench while Eric Rowe and Johnson Bademosi get lit up did not give NE the best chance to win. He wasn't a healthy scratch because he sucks. I have a ridiculously hard time believing that.

As someone else stated earlier, it's ridiculous to think Belichick just woke up today and decided it was time to bench the dude that started at corner for them all year. He was good enough to play all season, but not in the Super Bowl? Bademosi and Rowe were just so good in practice that they went away from Butler? Doubtful. Something happened.

[DontTazeMeBro]

Does PFF use All-22? I heard a few years ago they don’t. Maybe they do now. But there’s no way you can accurately judge the secondary by the broadcast camera angles

Who are the people grading and why should we trust them?

Im guessing you don’t have the same people grading every single game. So one persons grades may be different than someone elses

Number 1 reason not to trust PFF. Confirmation Bias. Something subjective like that, people see things they want to see

[childofpudding]

3 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

...but you are? Look, you're a Patriots fan (for now, until there's a better team to "like") and know more about their players than me, but my argument is that Malcolm Butler sitting on the bench while Eric Rowe and Johnson Bademosi get lit up did not give NE the best chance to win. He wasn't a healthy scratch because he sucks. I have a ridiculously hard time believing that.

As someone else stated earlier, it's ridiculous to think Belichick just woke up today and decided it was time to bench the dude that started at corner for them all year. He was good enough to play all season, but not in the Super Bowl? Bademosi and Rowe were just so good in practice that they went away from Butler? Doubtful. Something happened.

At some point when Rowe is getting lit up all over the field, you say, hey Malcolm, give it a shot. They had literally nothing to lose by letting him take snaps. The secondary was torched. All. Night. Long.

[lancerman]

4 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

...but you are? Look, you're a Patriots fan (for now, until there's a better team to "like") and know more about their players than me, but my argument is that Malcolm Butler sitting on the bench while Eric Rowe and Johnson Bademosi get lit up did not give NE the best chance to win. He wasn't a healthy scratch because he sucks. I have a ridiculously hard time believing that.

As someone else stated earlier, it's ridiculous to think Belichick just woke up today and decided it was time to bench the dude that started at corner for them all year. He was good enough to play all season, but not in the Super Bowl? Bademosi and Rowe were just so good in practice that they went away from Butler? Doubtful. Something happened.

We don’t know how Butler was playing after he got sick. So you can’t make that argument. 

[GSUeagles14]

16 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Again keep in mind Butler had to get treated for flu like symptons. Very likely he wasn't playing at the level Belichick wanted them too.

still doesnt make sense... everyone not named gilmore was getting lit up, once your in game why npot gove the guy you deemed better than those guys a shot even if he isnt 100%? 

[BleedTheClock]

1 minute ago, DontTazeMeBro said:

Does PFF use All-22? I heard a few years ago they don’t. Maybe they do now. But there’s no way you can accurately judge the secondary by the broadcast camera angles

Who are the people grading and why should we trust them?

Im guessing you don’t have the same people grading every single game. So one persons grades may be different than someone elses

Number 1 reason not to trust PFF. Confirmation Bias. Something subjective like that, people see things they want to see

Nobody's saying PFF is perfect. But why do we trust our own casual fan experience absent from all-22 tape over people that get paid to break these things down? Neither is perfect, but I trust PFF more than what Joe Scmo has to say. There are obvious anomalies (Jame Collins and OJ Howard being two of the worst players in the NFL), but overall the system is pretty good...or at least, better than anything any of us have come up with.

[lancerman]

Just now, GSUeagles14 said:

still doesnt make sense... everyone not named gilmore was getting lit up, once your in game why npot gove the guy you deemed better than those guys a shot even if he isnt 100%? 

Cause we don’t know if he was playing significantly worse than the two guys in there. Maybe they were getting lit up, maybe Belichick still thought it was better than Butler getting blown up and doing more damage 

[BleedTheClock]

3 minutes ago, lancerman said:

We don’t know how Butler was playing after he got sick. So you can’t make that argument. 

Well we do know how Bademosi and Rowe were playing. There's no way Belichick didn't do this out of some spiteful reason. I'd bet money that something comes out about Butler missing a meeting or doing something off the field to draw the ire of Belichick. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be willing to do the same. PayPal it up dude.

[JAF-N72EX]

2 minutes ago, DontTazeMeBro said:

Does PFF use All-22?

Nope. That's why their grades come out on Monday BEFORE the all-22 is released on Tuesdays and Wednesdays.

Just now, DontTazeMeBro said:

Who are the people grading and why should we trust them?

They hire college kids to save money(remember, it's a business) with entry-level AT BEST analysis to sit down and watch the games. Mind you, these kids have other priorities(studying, partying, etc) and so when they completing these chart "analysis", the majority of them are rushed. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

They do use All-22. They release the initial grades after the game, but then go back when All-22 is available and grade it again.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 minute ago, JustAnotherFan said:

Nope. That's why their grades come out on Monday BEFORE the all-22 is released on Tuesdays and Wednesdays.

I used to somewhat respect them back when the writeups and grades would come out the day after a game, but now they come out hours later and everything is just so lazily done. I don't get why anyone takes their grades/ratings/rankings seriously. Use them as a benchmark, with a heavy grain of salt, but that's about it.

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Switching gears, has anyone asked Malcolm himself what the deal was today? Also, I just have to laugh at the narrative that Belichick wouldn't do something "just to be evil". This dude cuts guys days before the Superbowl, let's not pretend he's not a giant prick.

[jrry32]

24 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said:

Are you, yes or no, better than PFF?

Yes or no.  Are you better than PFF? 

I'm not saying they're the end all be all, but let's not act like 99% of people on this entire site could do better.  That includes you and me. 

Yes, I am.

[BleedTheClock]

Just now, JustAnotherFan said:

Nope. That's why their grades come out on Monday BEFORE the all-22 is released on Tuesdays and Wednesdays.

They hire college kids to save money(remember, it's a business) with entry-level AT BEST analysis to sit down and watch the games. Mind you, these kids have other priorities(studying, partying, etc) and so when they completing these chart "analysis", the majority of them are rushed. 

You're right. Because they hire college kids, we must assume they're completely useless at their jobs.

Pretty stupid statement.

 

Start your own company where you break down games then dude. Then you can trash PFF all you want and tout your system as superior. Until someone else can do it better, it's the best system available. Nobody's saying it's perfect, but people get so mad if they disagree with their rankings. I think there were some unfair rankings on their top/bottom 5 lists, but I don't freak out about it because I don't watch every snap. I'm sure I have more knowledge than a lot of these guys breaking down the games, but I'm not spending the amount of hours necessary to do it. They do put in those hours and we aren't really in a position to scream and yell when our method of a counter argument is "they're thinking about partying" or "I don't like that low/high ranking of said player! Rabble Rabble!"