Whicker Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 12 minutes ago, TedLavie said: Ok to clarify that. I alerted bcb Rags and Jlash on Monday that Nacho voted in 2 games only. Against Mike and against me. We both left NSFL which made me think there was foul play. Since it didn't affect the outcome of the games (or I thought it wouldn't as I expected Mike and I to win) I only said we should keep it in mind for the rest of the season and see if it happened again. I didn't put it in the thread because I wanted to see if this was a coincidence or a pattern, and I didn't want to call out someone, especially a respected mod, for something that could be nothing. Sorry for the lack of transparency I hope you will understand a bit more now. I understand now that Nacho did place additional votes and that it affected the Rome/Singap result. Which changes the nature of the beast. I will think it through. @bcb1213 maybe we delay waivers until Thu to review the issue? I guess I understand but I am still in disagreement with how it was handled. IMO there's nothing to see here. I'd say we enact a rule that requires comments from all nonmembers if we are to count their votes, and move on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ny92mike Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, Whicker said: I guess I understand but I am still in disagreement with how it was handled. IMO there's nothing to see here. I'd say we enact a rule that requires comments from all nonmembers if we are to count their votes, and move on. Perhaps, but look at the times when his votes were cast. Ted and mine were cast only two minutes apart. Hardly enough time to give a fair evaluation. Against, the other two votes he cast were less than a minute apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuskieTitan Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Quote Alshon Jeffery (shoulder) will participate in individual drills Wednesday. It's a step in the right direction, as Jeffery may get the "limited" designation for Wednesday's practice. However, Jeffery himself admitted last Thursday that he's still a "few weeks" away from returning. It's highly doubtful he plays Week 2 against the Bucs. Nelson Agholor will be a solid WR2. Sep 12 - 10:41 AM Praying to Jobu to give Jeffery health and return to the field. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcb1213 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 The last thing anyone of us wanted to do was bring attention to something that may have been innocent done by a moderator. After the second group of votes done within the same minute, we had to let you guys know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pheltzbahr Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 10 minutes ago, bcb1213 said: The last thing anyone of us wanted to do was bring attention to something that may have been innocent done by a moderator. After the second group of votes done within the same minute, we had to let you guys know. Thanks for protecting us and shielding our eyes from evil. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whicker Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 13 minutes ago, bcb1213 said: The last thing anyone of us wanted to do was bring attention to something that may have been innocent done by a moderator. After the second group of votes done within the same minute, we had to let you guys know. When did you let us know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcb1213 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, Whicker said: When did you let us know? As soon as we discussed it today. Mike and Ted brought it to my attention. After seeing he had voted on two other people games for similar reasons, I reached out to another mod to make a group message, pmd the ruling committee and Mike informed you guys shortly thereafter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whicker Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, bcb1213 said: As soon as we discussed it today. Mike and Ted brought it to my attention. After seeing he had voted on two other people games for similar reasons, I reached out to another mod to make a group message, pmd the ruling committee and Mike informed you guys shortly thereafter *Sigh* I'm done with this. You all have fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey5djh Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 (edited) So uh....here's how this works. Singapore wins, Rome loses. TheKillerNacho votes count, we'll discuss the "outside votes" in offseason meetings unless it becomes a pattern. Edited September 12, 2018 by Hockey5djh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TedLavie Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 18 minutes ago, Whicker said: *Sigh* I'm done with this. You all have fun Whicker, I have no idea why you're taking this so at heart, but we have a ruling committee in place to deal with those situations, and we've PMed privately before, it will probably happen again. Thankfully, it doesn't happen often, but considering it's just an interpretation, I thought it would be better to be handled in private at first, as I explained earlier. Maybe it was wrong, I don't know, but it's done. Like Hockey and you said, if Nacho voted on all games without any weird pattern, it wouldn't have been an issue. We've always encouraged outside votes, whether there were commented or not, from established members (not bots). This has never been an issue in the past. However in this case, Nacho voted against Mike on Sunday at 7:08pm, then against me at 7:10 pm. Both left NSFL this offseason. He then voted for the 2 NSFL members, you and SirA (he had already vote for Ruskie while voting against me), sometime 17 hours ago. He didn't vote in any other game. At the very least, it should be discussed. There are two 2 things we need to discuss: 1. Do we count Nacho's vote this week, considering it affected the score of Rome-Singapore? 2. Do we allow non owners/co-owners to vote in the future, starting next week? If I'm bcb, I'm pretty pissed off about this today. Now imagine we have the issue in a playoff game or in a Bizz Bowl... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whicker Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 (edited) 26 minutes ago, TedLavie said: Whicker, I have no idea why you're taking this so at heart, but we have a ruling committee in place to deal with those situations, and we've PMed privately before, it will probably happen again. Thankfully, it doesn't happen often, but considering it's just an interpretation, I thought it would be better to be handled in private at first, as I explained earlier. Maybe it was wrong, I don't know, but it's done. Like Hockey and you said, if Nacho voted on all games without any weird pattern, it wouldn't have been an issue. We've always encouraged outside votes, whether there were commented or not, from established members (not bots). This has never been an issue in the past. However in this case, Nacho voted against Mike on Sunday at 7:08pm, then against me at 7:10 pm. Both left NSFL this offseason. He then voted for the 2 NSFL members, you and SirA (he had already vote for Ruskie while voting against me), sometime 17 hours ago. He didn't vote in any other game. At the very least, it should be discussed. There are two 2 things we need to discuss: 1. Do we count Nacho's vote this week, considering it affected the score of Rome-Singapore? 2. Do we allow non owners/co-owners to vote in the future, starting next week? If I'm bcb, I'm pretty pissed off about this today. Now imagine we have the issue in a playoff game or in a Bizz Bowl... I believe you mishandled the situation and have already explained my thoughts im not taking this "to heart." I'm giving my opinion. My response was to the fact that bcb was trying to say we were informed as soon as this discussion happened, even though there were posts with people clearly hiding things, including a post that literally said "I'll tell you via PM." which means in that moment something was going on and we were not told. Right after this happened, scores were changed, which means a decision was made. This was before any of us were told and certainly not "as soon as it was discussed." This isn't about the votes or the outcome. As I said I really am done. My opinions are on the table. Edited September 12, 2018 by Whicker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirA1 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 1 hour ago, ny92mike said: Perhaps, but look at the times when his votes were cast. Ted and mine were cast only two minutes apart. Hardly enough time to give a fair evaluation. Against, the other two votes he cast were less than a minute apart. This isn't really relevant because I've known some people to read everything first and then cast all their votes at once. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ny92mike Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 42 minutes ago, SirA1 said: This isn't really relevant because I've known some people to read everything first and then cast all their votes at once. Is that what you do? It's not what I do. If you want to toss this to the side that's fine but I believe it shows a pattern that at the very least is worth noting, especially given the parties involved. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ny92mike Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Whicker said: I believe you mishandled the situation and have already explained my thoughts im not taking this "to heart." I'm giving my opinion. My response was to the fact that bcb was trying to say we were informed as soon as this discussion happened, even though there were posts with people clearly hiding things, including a post that literally said "I'll tell you via PM." which means in that moment something was going on and we were not told. Right after this happened, scores were changed, which means a decision was made. This was before any of us were told and certainly not "as soon as it was discussed." This isn't about the votes or the outcome. As I said I really am done. My opinions are on the table. Whicker posting the scores was on me. The deadline had passed and so in what I thought was a move in helping out, I posted the scores without checking in with anyone before hand. It wasn't intended to hide anything from anyone. I know you don't know me but if you did you'd know that I'm transparent in my opinions and the last thing I wanted to do was blast someone in the forum without having more to go on. I brought what the question to Ted, which was one of the first post I made in the Orlando game, he told me that it was fine that nacho voted, but later that evening I voiced my concerns to him again privately, which he informed me that he too was voted against. Ted said to wait and see if it happened again the following week, and that he would bring the complaint to the heads for review. From my understanding, bcb mentioned that he had voted on two other matchups all related to his sim, when he said that I just thought he was simply asking me to remove those two votes as well, so I did. It wasn't until some of you started asking that nacho be the deciding vote that a discussion was started in an attempt to resolve this issue. The last thing I wanted to do was step into this sim and destroy it the first week. I'm really sorry you feel the way you do and will remove myself from this sim regrettingly if I or this unfortunate incident has forced you to step away in anger or frustration. Edited September 12, 2018 by ny92mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pheltzbahr Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Has anyone asked Nacho and if so, what was his response? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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