Draft Discussion 3.0

[bosko1616]

9 minutes ago, TheeRealDeal said:

Speaking of analytics and Sashi/Depo wanting to explode over Mayfield. Months back when I did my own investigating I found what an analytical turd DeShone Kizer was and it made me think that it must have been a Hue Jackson pick for sure. Fast foward to 5 weeks ago and John Dorsey shipped Kizer off to Green Bay. I believe it was because he wanted his guy in here and no threat of Hue's guy around. The two things together 100% tell me that DeShone Kizer was a Hue Jackson pick all the way but like everything else he fails at he won't man up and take the blame.

If Sashi were truly running the show all on his own and not listening to his coaching staff then DeShone Kizer would have never even been in consideration for a pick even in the 7th round. He was an analytics dumpster fire.

Truly I don’t see Hue lasting and Dorsey bringing in his guy regardless. Toub or Flip maybe 

[MistaBohmbastic]

Concur that Johnny's claim to fame was his incredible improvisation capabilities. Baker has a supreme knowledge of the game, and he can pick defenses apart or so it seems. But Mayfield's need for structure to obtain success can be both good and bad. To someone's point, he may only find success if he's in an offense that caters to his strengths. One thing, however, that will separate these two professionally above and beyond the rest is work ethic. Baker has it, no matter how much attitude is a concern, and Johnny doesn't.

[Rod Johnson]

3 minutes ago, MistaBohmbastic said:

Concur that Johnny's claim to fame was his incredible improvisation capabilities. Baker has a supreme knowledge of the game, and he can pick defenses apart or so it seems. But Mayfield's need for structure to obtain success can be both good and bad. To someone's point, he may only find success if he's in an offense that caters to his strengths. One thing, however, that will separate these two professionally above and beyond the rest is work ethic. Baker has it, no matter how much attitude is a concern, and Johnny doesn't.

That's my concern with him.  It's not that he's short it's that he played in a cheesy college offense which helped mitigate that he's short.  I wouldn't be upset if we picked him though since I have my reservations about all these QBs.

[ditchdigger]

1 hour ago, MistaBohmbastic said:

Spoke to my co-worker with the Browns network moments ago. Reaffirmed some things, but to hear it from an employee of the Browns certainly supports the cause.

Two things, I asked him if he believed Hue when Jackson said no decision has been made at QB..."Not in the slightest."

And, I asked him where he thinks the Browns stand in their rankings at QB:

1. Darnold

2. Baker Mayfield

Also reiterated that the organization is not as high on Allen as many think.

So not much in terms of new developments here, but what do you expect with nine days to go?

You've come a long way from the urinal at Terminal Tower.

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, roger murdock said:

How are Manziel and Mayfield even remotely alike? Manziel played like a chicken with his head cutoff. He would hijack the offense and break down plays and do whatever the hell he wanted. 

 

Mayfield ran the offense more fluidly and perfect than any college QB I've ever seen. 

 

To use NBA players as an example, Manziel was Allen Iverson, Mayfield was Steve Nash. 

I meant he was mistaking Mayfield for Manziel comparing him to Garcia. Manziel had a lot more of the Garcia traits than Mayfield does.

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, bruceb said:

Imho, Mayfield has the lowest ceiling for this very reason.

Makes no sense though. None of them are going to improve much if at all physically going forward and Mayfield likely has the best arm with the exception of Allen. No one is getting faster or more elusive. Traits like pocket awareness, anticipation, general knowledge of the game like reading defenses and progression timing can all be improved upon and maybe one prospect is better than others in certain areas but the ability and want to learn those determines their ceiling. Darnold isn't going to throw a football better 5 years from now. A lot of his strengths are those that one would consider him being maxed out. Mayfield has a lot to learn making the jump to an NFL offense, they all do to a degree but Mayfield should be much better 3 years from now than he will be as a rookie. Same with all of these QBs. Unless you are expecting Mayfield to put up the numbers he did in college as a rookie, then of course he is maxed out (and will be the GOAT in about 6 or 7 years into his career).

[AkronsWitness]

1 hour ago, MistaBohmbastic said:

Concur that Johnny's claim to fame was his incredible improvisation capabilities. Baker has a supreme knowledge of the game, and he can pick defenses apart or so it seems. But Mayfield's need for structure to obtain success can be both good and bad. To someone's point, he may only find success if he's in an offense that caters to his strengths. One thing, however, that will separate these two professionally above and beyond the rest is work ethic. Baker has it, no matter how much attitude is a concern, and Johnny doesn't.

Thats how it should be though. EVERY offensive and defensive coordinator should be tailoring their gameplan around the players strengths. Thats where I think Hue and Williams fall on their face.. He is the king of jamming players into his system wheather they are good at it or not. It makes no sense from a team success standpoint. Why would I ask my QB to do things I know hes not ready for or good at? Like telling Kizer to launch 15 passes a game 20+ yards down field when he is already struggling. Or having Peppers play as a FS when the reason he was a 1st rounder was because his ability to make plays around the LOS.

Kyle Shannahan and Wade Phillips are the 2 best in the game at designing their plans around their players strengths and let them go make plays doing what they are good at. 

If Mayfield is a monster when you sprinkle in RPOs 25% of the time -- why would you not do that when it benefits the team? Just to prove a point that 'my systems the best and we dont run RPOs'?

[bruceb]

2 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

Thats how it should be though. EVERY offensive and defensive coordinator should be tailoring their gameplan around the players strengths. Thats where I think Hue and Williams fall on their face..

This.

[buno67]

53 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

Thats where I think Hue and Williams fall on their face...

....Or having Peppers play as a FS when the reason he was a 1st rounder was because his ability to make plays around the LOS.

5

I will gladly laugh at Huebris for falling on his face. 

Greg Williams...not so fast. Yeah it sucked he had to play Peppers at FS but I dont think they had anyone else that could play the position. I know you could say, they could of just stuck anyone else at that position but I dont think it would of worked that way. The more I read things about Williams and this so called Halo defense, more I changed my attitude about him. Hell, he ran the same type of defense with the Saints during their superbowl run. I think he trusted Peppers athletic ability, that he could still make plays out there. Where there was potentially no one else capable of it. I think you combine that with the Browns lack of cornerback play on a consistent base, he ran that defense a lot. Towards the end of the year, we saw Willaims mix things up and actually play Peppers near the LOS. I believe we saw Peppers being used differently, because he was playing a different position. We saw Peppers be used more at the SS position at the end of the year, it matches up with the time Kindred went to the IR. Peppers went to playing FS to Kindred's SS, to playing SS to replace kindred. From there, Peppers was used more in the box. I think this upcoming year, we will see Peppers in the box more because he will be the SS and Randall will be the FS. 

[NudeTayne]

6 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

 

Very possible.

I mean, if we’re being honest there isn’t one objective measurable metric where isn’t at the top of this class, at least based on production.

 

6 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

Agreed. Mayfield is a faaar more polished passer and much better at making reads from the pocket/going through progressions. Manziel was a better playmaker outside of the pocket.

Outside of their height and little man syndrome cocky behavior---they are nothing alike as far as quarterbacks.

You two are welcome aboard the ark.

[Aztec Hammer]

9 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

Makes no sense though. None of them are going to improve much if at all physically going forward and Mayfield likely has the best arm with the exception of Allen. No one is getting faster or more elusive. Traits like pocket awareness, anticipation, general knowledge of the game like reading defenses and progression timing can all be improved upon and maybe one prospect is better than others in certain areas but the ability and want to learn those determines their ceiling. Darnold isn't going to throw a football better 5 years from now. A lot of his strengths are those that one would consider him being maxed out. Mayfield has a lot to learn making the jump to an NFL offense, they all do to a degree but Mayfield should be much better 3 years from now than he will be as a rookie. Same with all of these QBs. Unless you are expecting Mayfield to put up the numbers he did in college as a rookie, then of course he is maxed out (and will be the GOAT in about 6 or 7 years into his career).

You don’t think a 20 year has a decent shot at being able to throw a football better in five years?

Rodgers, Brady and many more would disagree.

20 is a baby. Give anyone another few years of physical development in a professional setting and they have every chance of getting bigger and stronger.

I bet Mayfield would say he’s physically better now at 23 than he was at 20 if you asked him.

[MWil23]

For what it's worth about Shake N Baker Mayfield

[Aztec Hammer]

22 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

For what it's worth about Shake N Baker Mayfield

Allbright has also been on this for a while. Hard to know for sure though because all it takes is for the Browns to do something unexpected and set off a ripple effect.

I managed to get a bet on Darnold 1, Allen 2, Mayfield 3 at 25/1.

[MWil23]

Just for fun because I was bored, I tried to figure out what it would take to move up to #2, so here it goes:

The Browns trade: #4, #35, #64

for:

#2, #108 (4th)

The Browns will then have:

#1, #2, #33, #108, #114 in the first 4 rounds.

The Browns then decide to sell the #2 overall pick, after drafting Sam Darnold at #1 overall, to the Buffalo Bills for:

#12, #22, #65, and a 2019 #1

The Browns will  then have:

#1: Darnold

#12: 

#22:

#33:

#65:

and 2 4th round selections

So, we'd still have 5 top 65 picks AND 2 1sts next year

[Aztec Hammer]

3 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Just for fun because I was bored, I tried to figure out what it would take to move up to #2, so here it goes:

The Browns trade: #4, #35, #64

for:

#2, #108 (4th)

The Browns will then have:

#1, #2, #33, #108, #114 in the first 4 rounds.

The Browns then decide to sell the #2 overall pick, after drafting Sam Darnold at #1 overall, to the Buffalo Bills for:

#12, #22, #65, and a 2019 #1

The Browns will  then have:

#1: Darnold

#12: 

#22:

#33:

#65:

and 2 4th round selections

So, we'd still have 5 top 65 picks AND 2 1sts next year

We’d basically be giving up 4 and 35 for 12, 22 and a 2019 1st.

I wouldn’t hate it because the Bills 2019 1st should be gold, but it feels a bit unnecessary to be honest. Especially if the Bills end up having a solid season. Then the value is warped and we potentially just traded:

4 - Chubb

35 - Guice

for 12, 22 and a next year pick that could be anything.

I don’t think we need to do this. I’d rather just sit at 4 and trade away Josh Rosen for a haul (or just pick Chubb/Barkley), whilst keeping 35.