Predict The Pick v.2 - 2 - Giants

[Dallas94Ware]

6 minutes ago, Gmen4ev said:

Allen has a big arm but couldn't connect if his target was a trampoline.

I'd gladly take the guy who can connect on 85% of 50 yard bombs over the dude who could connect on 20% of 65 yarders.

Height is also a non issue. Something beat writers need to use to find issues with a prospect without actively scouting. 

Hey, I agree with ya -

I think Allen has the most "upside" as a gunslinging Favre/Rodgers/Romo type. But his accuracy, due to not setting his hips and feet, means trouble.

That said, sitting for two years can easily offset that with proper coaching. NYG would therefore be the best situation for him. Look what it did for Rodgers, who had this same flaw  (not setting his hips and feet, playing too liberalnwith his big arm)

But Mayfield has the poise, accuracy and arm to deliver much sooner and should likely be a star immediately. Im a big fan of his. And i dont believe his height will be a factor if given the proper situation.

A system where he has to stand and deliver from a straight drop behind 6'3+ OLs and DLs would be a tougher situation for him. He needs to be allowed more freedom. Dont know if hed get that from Shurmur

Im on record as saying Mayfield will be the star of this draft. Im just predicting the pick, if they go QB, based on the track record of the GM and the likely preference of the coach based on his usual system and playcalling.

[LuckyNumber11]

3 hours ago, Texas_OutLaw7 said:

Let's get some of teams fans in here to help sway the vote!

@Acgott, @mattbags2313, @YogiBiz, @GMENNATION, @Money, @bzane, @Gmen1985, @Gmen19851, @Gmen4ev, @gmen5821, @gmenback2back, @GmenSeattle, @LuckyNumber11, @Bballbkd, @ny92jefferis, @w4rrior723, @GEE MEN, @minutemancl

Honored to be chosen for this esteemed honor. Went with Nelson, because I think that's what you guys do here

[DaBoys]

1 hour ago, Gmen4ev said:

Solid rebuttal

Glad I could help. Now denounce Mayfeild, and declare your eternal loyalty to the Joshs'. Repeat after me:

 

"Get thee behind me Mayfeild! You have no power over me. I will not be led into the temptation of thinking you can make a good NFL QB.  I made that mistake with Johnny Football and I won't do it again!" 

 

You may have to repeat that last conjunction over as many times as needed.

[Glen]

11 minutes ago, DaBoys said:

Glad I could help. Now denounce Mayfeild, and declare your eternal loyalty to the Joshs'. Repeat after me:

 

"Get thee behind me Mayfeild! You have no power over me. I will not be led into the temptation of thinking you can make a good NFL QB.  I made that mistake with Johnny Football and I won't do it again!" 

 

You may have to repeat that last conjunction over as many times as needed.

Manziel got bailed out by Mike Evans. Anyone with a brain could have told you that. He was my 4th ranked QB that draft 

[DaBoys]

5 minutes ago, Gmen4ev said:

Manziel got bailed out by Mike Evans. Anyone with a brain could have told you that. He was my 4th ranked QB that draft 

I wouldn't touch Mayfield or JM with a 10 ft. Poll. A 6 foot tall, spread QB that made a living dancing around behind the LOS until a WR could break off his route. It's not going to work. Moxy doesn't put points on the board, if it did Dak would be a good QB.

[Dallas94Ware]

3 hours ago, DaBoys said:

I wouldn't touch Mayfield or JM with a 10 ft. Poll. A 6 foot tall, spread QB that made a living dancing around behind the LOS until a WR could break off his route. It's not going to work. Moxy doesn't put points on the board, if it did Dak would be a good QB.

Mayfield's improv was a must given his team. While I am not a fan of his system, Brady makes it work in the NFL and took several years of starting to truly learn how to run a "pro" system, and even then, he still falls back on the quick route quick release gimmicks that Mayfield has a knack for as well.

I do get your thought however. You dont often see that translate into the NFL; but when you do it is often done by someone headstrong and willing to learn to do things differently. You see that in Mayfield. Also, many of his pass concepts were of a pro nature (centerfield splitters like the post-corner, two deep beaters like the hitch-corner, man coverage beaters like the double crossing with a choke point, etc) and not a straight gimmick or simplified route tree (a bunch of nines, a group of button hooks and bubbles, etc). 

I personally dont believe in Rosen. He has a natural throw with a really pretty release, an accurate and efficient delivery that really bodes well for NFL play. But he is just full of underwhelming effort at times, and it bugs me. He could put together a nice long career with high efficiency passing in a system similar to what you see in Tennessee or Buffalo. But I think he and Allen have the biggest bust potential of the top guys.

That said...if Allen is allowed time to learn and isnt rushed into the lineup, I see a ton of young Tony Romo in him. He could be a great one if allowed time. 

Not to.ramble on and on (I can talk abiut these QBs all damn day! They all excite me as a fan) but Mayfield, man, if he can speed his game up, that already quick release with that mental toughness and competitiveness, he will be special. 

Overall though... quarterbacks are hard to judge. Like @Dirk Gently once said, it.boils down to this: Will the ball come out on time more often than not? You can read into systems and skillsets and leadership all you want. But bottom line is that simple; will they learn to get the ball out on time? As good as some are, the skills they possessed, its so hard to learn to do that, that it didnt matter what else they could do.

[Texas_OutLaw7]

6 different choices. Extremely competitive race. Seems like pick 2 is going to radically change the draft one way or another.

[Runaway Jim]

What good is a stud running back if you have a crappy OL?

[GMENNATION]

Following my heart with this one and voting for Barkley. He would just be so beloved by Giants fans. The idea of him, OBJ and Evan Engram creating match-up nightmares is too much to pass up for me. 

[Dallas94Ware]

57 minutes ago, Runaway Jim said:

What good is a stud running back if you have a crappy OL?

This has been my contention since day one about them picking SB.

Whats he going to do for them...run into the same wall of blue jerseys that Gallman, Perkins and Darkwa run into?

That said, if the Giants are convinced Eli has several GOOD years left in him, then selecting SB is by and large their best chance to win another ring. I dont see Eli having much good football left in him, his passes already sail a bit too much, theres been less and less velocity the last few years. At some point its going to catch up to him...and while I doubt itd be this year, its reaching a point and hes reaching an age where selecting a QB is jjst as viable and sensible as picking SB.

[DaBoys]

I mean, if Orleans Darkwa can get 4.4 YPC behind the OL, why would Barkley be useless?  Things that make you go hmmmmmm....

[Dallas94Ware]

1 hour ago, DaBoys said:

I mean, if Orleans Darkwa can get 4.4 YPC behind the OL, why would Barkley be useless?  Things that make you go hmmmmmm....

Darkwa's use by situation was very different from what you would expect of Barkley. Dont let the stats dictate the story for you...because its leaving out a big portion of that story that its telling you

Darkwa was a third down back and almost never lined up against the boxes that a lead guy will see

He had 4.4 for several reasons -

Third down draws gaining big chunks. Minimal carries early downs vs base formations. Third down back ran against 5 and 6 in the box mostly, almost never against a full 7 and especially not against 8. Sharing carries with the guy working the harder situations. And having gotten most of his work late in the season after Perkins and Gallman already bit the bullet.

Make no mistake a.real runner having to work against a full front with that line paving the way is going to struggle. That line was absolutely atrocious.

 

[DaBoys]

6 minutes ago, Dallas94Ware said:

Darkwa's use by situation was very different from what you would expect of Barkley. Dont let the stats dictate the story for you...because its leaving out a big portion of that story that its telling you

Darkwa was a third down back and almost never lined up against the boxes that a lead guy will see

He had 4.4 for several reasons -

Third down draws gaining big chunks. Minimal carries early downs vs base formations. Third down back ran against 5 and 6 in the box mostly, almost never against a full 7 and especially not against 8. Sharing carries with the guy working the harder situations. And having gotten most of his work late in the season after Perkins and Gallman already bit the bullet.

Make no mistake a.real runner having to work against a full front with that line paving the way is going to struggle. That line was absolutely atrocious.

 

Darkwa was the starter by the end of the season

[DaBoys]

You can't put 8 in the box against SB when OBJ is on the outside

[Dallas94Ware]

4 minutes ago, DaBoys said:

Darkwa was the starter by the end of the season

And still saw majority third down work, with Gallman getting most of the carries against the base front 7. Trust me...I live in NY and watch football every Sunday with an elder brother who is a long lived Giants fan. We watch with two TVs...his Giants on one and either Red Zone or Dallas on the other. Ive seen as much NYG football as Ive seen my own darn team (unfortunately)

Darkwa didnt carry the bulk, especially not early downs, and that line is one of the worst in football. Those are facts 100%