Huge interest in Derrius Guice

[HTTRDynasty]

47 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I listed 5 running backs who were 1st round picks that won a super bowl since 99, then Woz listed one I forgot with Jamal Lewis. If you really want to get technical the last one which won and was drafted by his team was Rashard Mendenhall in 08, then, he went the next year and the Steelers lost. Marshall Falk went twice, won 1& Lost 1. Lynch went twice and won once & lost once bc Carrol didn’t give him the ball on 3rd and 1 at the goal line.

Most of those 5 RBs weren't drafted by their team, which is the question I asked.

Lynch wasn't drafted by the Seahawks.

Falk wasn't drafted by the Rams.

Mendenhall was the last one.  And that was before the rookie wage scale was in place, which was the whole point of the lengthy post you are still ignoring.  Ignoring relative positional value is something I expect out of fans.  I hope our FO isn't so short sighted.

 

[Thaiphoon]

At this point, at #13... I'm thinking Edge rusher or CB provides best value. I'm actually more in agreement with @HTTRG3Dynasty here

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, HTTRG3Dynasty said:

Most of those 5 RBs weren't drafted by their team, which is the question I asked.

Lynch wasn't drafted by the Seahawks.

Falk wasn't drafted by the Rams.

Mendenhall was the last one.  And that was before the rookie wage scale was in place, which was the whole point of the lengthy post you are still ignoring.  Ignoring relative positional value is something I expect out of fans.  I hope our FO isn't so short sighted.

 

What’s the difference? Isn’t your argument a rb isn’t worth a 1st round pick? I feel that’s what you're trying to say.

Obviously the teams that traded for those backs or signed them away from their original teams got the better end of those deals. Rams went to two Super Bowls mostly bc of Faulk, Colts didn’t win until 6 years later. Ravens and Steelers don’t win the SB in 01 & 05 w/o Lewis & Bettis. Bills have only been to the playoffs once since 99, meanwhile Lynch helped the Seahawks to two super bowl appearances and one win.

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, Thaiphoon said:

At this point, at #13... I'm thinking Edge rusher or CB provides best value. I'm actually more in agreement with @HTTRG3Dynasty here

Well give me the corner, otherwise we’re going to be fielding a team of all 1st & 2nd round edge rushers.

[HTTRDynasty]

36 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

What’s the difference? Isn’t your argument a rb isn’t worth a 1st round pick? I feel that’s what you're trying to say.

Obviously the teams that traded for those backs or signed them away from their original teams got the better end of those deals. Rams went to two Super Bowls mostly bc of Faulk, Colts didn’t win until 6 years later. Ravens and Steelers don’t win the SB in 01 & 05 w/o Lewis & Bettis. Bills have only been to the playoffs once since 99, meanwhile Lynch helped the Seahawks to two super bowl appearances and one win.

Read my 2nd post in this thread. It answers your question. 

[Ghostnote]

2 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

At this point, at #13... I'm thinking Edge rusher or CB provides best value. I'm actually more in agreement with @HTTRG3Dynasty here

I am more than happy to take Denzel Ward if he is on the board. The value would be there. 

But, the only edge rusher I like in the first round outside of Chubb, is Landry. At this point though, we have Kerrigan, Smith, Anderson, and McPhee. A first round edge rusher might not be the best direction. 

Again, it all depends who is on the board. 

[Woz]

6 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Scherff is getting paid highly for a guard too - more than Guice would as a RB and Scherff plays a less important position

Most of the rest of your posts have been addressed but this comment surprisingly slid under the radar.

On any given offensive play, the guard is going to be more important (and thus more valuable) than the running back. Think about it. What are the various things the RB can be doing on a given play?

1. Gets the carry. Obviously this is important but if the guard fails, the rush is probably in trouble. Flipside of that is if the guard does his job really well, the RBs job is easy (how many times have we said "heck, I could run through that hole!").

2. Pass blocks. Arguably the second most important thing the RB does ... but he is the failsafe. If the RB is picking up a defender, either it was blitz or someone screwed up. Even so, the guard is blocking on the play so he's more important.

3. Runs out in a route. Maybe it's a dump off, maybe it's planned, maybe it's a screen. The guard is more important. On a dump off, the guard has to hold up long enough for the QB to run through his progressions before going with the outlet. On a screen, the guard is likely pulling to open up the pathway for the RB. Only on a planned outlet is maybe the RB equivalent in value.

4. On the sidelines as he isn't the "3rd down back" (i.e. the one who is mostly responsible for #2 and #3). Remember, barring injury, the guard is on the field for all of the offensive snaps.

 

Yes, a incredibly good running back canake a mediocre line look acceptable. However, it is a lot easier to have a great line make a mediocre running back look good.

[turtle28]

24 minutes ago, mike23md said:

I am more than happy to take Denzel Ward if he is on the board. The value would be there. 

But, the only edge rusher I like in the first round outside of Chubb, is Landry. At this point though, we have Kerrigan, Smith, Anderson, and McPhee. A first round edge rusher might not be the best direction. 

Again, it all depends who is on the board. 

Oh yes! I couldn’t agree with this more.

[turtle28]

8 hours ago, Woz said:

Most of the rest of your posts have been addressed but this comment surprisingly slid under the radar.

On any given offensive play, the guard is going to be more important (and thus more valuable) than the running back. Think about it. What are the various things the RB can be doing on a given play?

1. Gets the carry. Obviously this is important but if the guard fails, the rush is probably in trouble. Flipside of that is if the guard does his job really well, the RBs job is easy (how many times have we said "heck, I could run through that hole!").

2. Pass blocks. Arguably the second most important thing the RB does ... but he is the failsafe. If the RB is picking up a defender, either it was blitz or someone screwed up. Even so, the guard is blocking on the play so he's more important.

3. Runs out in a route. Maybe it's a dump off, maybe it's planned, maybe it's a screen. The guard is more important. On a dump off, the guard has to hold up long enough for the QB to run through his progressions before going with the outlet. On a screen, the guard is likely pulling to open up the pathway for the RB. Only on a planned outlet is maybe the RB equivalent in value.

4. On the sidelines as he isn't the "3rd down back" (i.e. the one who is mostly responsible for #2 and #3). Remember, barring injury, the guard is on the field for all of the offensive snaps.

 

Yes, a incredibly good running back canake a mediocre line look acceptable. However, it is a lot easier to have a great line make a mediocre running back look good.

I’m sorry, I will never agree that a guard is more important than a running back who - if he’s good to great - will touch the ball more than any offensive player on the field sans the QB.

The only reason the RB position has been devalued is because of injury and shorter careers vs other positions in the NFL and most teams do pass it more than they run it in today’s NFL.

I don’t think you can say that Zach Martin and Travis Frederick - for as good as they are - are more important than Zeke Elliot. Look at the Cowboys in 2016 w/ Elliot vs last year w/o him. They had a totally different offense.

Portis was more valuable than all of his OL except for Samuels, I could go on and on; same w/ Morris who wasn’t even a good receiver out of the backfield.

RBs have more of an impact on the game than guards. I’ll also add that if a guard missed a block - which ours sometimes do - a great running back can make unblocked defender miss, something we haven’t had out of our running backs - except for Thompson  - since Portis. 

At most I could agree their position importance is about equal in today’s NFL because with both positions most of the starting Gs & RBs are found after round 1. 

[aceinthehouse]

Trade with Bills & take RB Guice @#22. (get their top 2nd)

take DT Tim Settle @ #44

Take OG Billy Price @#53

Call it a day...

[Eric]

Guice must be fairly high on the board for us. I think the only way we pass on him is if Minkah Fitzpatrick falls to 13. He's our other crush. Going to be very interesting to see how this plays out. I can't wait!!! It's fun and aggravating going over this stuff.

There are two positions we have neglected for far too long. Nose tackle and running back. We haven't invested high draft picks in them forever. Either choice and all I can say is "about dam time"

Give me Guice and Harrison Phillips in the first two rounds or Vea and Sony Michel in the first two rounds and I'll get arrested for running up and down my neighborhood naked as a jaybird.

#HTTR

[Slateman]

The Redskins have a high interest in any running back. Their inability to run the ball is, frankly, the biggest problem on the team right now. So yea, they're interested in Guce. And every other RB in this draft/free agency.

[PARROTHEAD]

Past decade-dozen years weve tried out over 30 backs. The one that did work, had the coach that could make any back work.

I see taking a rb that talented early as a waste. Like taking your kid to school in a Ferrari instead of a track day. Have no business getting it if you dont know how to use it. Get something you do know what to do with. Like a DL.

So as much as I want an LSU guy to cheer. Id much rather settle for picking DJ heading up our WR core in like the 3rd, than to pick Guice.

[lavar703]

5 hours ago, Woz said:

Most of the rest of your posts have been addressed but this comment surprisingly slid under the radar.

On any given offensive play, the guard is going to be more important (and thus more valuable) than the running back. Think about it. What are the various things the RB can be doing on a given play?

1. Gets the carry. Obviously this is important but if the guard fails, the rush is probably in trouble. Flipside of that is if the guard does his job really well, the RBs job is easy (how many times have we said "heck, I could run through that hole!").

2. Pass blocks. Arguably the second most important thing the RB does ... but he is the failsafe. If the RB is picking up a defender, either it was blitz or someone screwed up. Even so, the guard is blocking on the play so he's more important.

3. Runs out in a route. Maybe it's a dump off, maybe it's planned, maybe it's a screen. The guard is more important. On a dump off, the guard has to hold up long enough for the QB to run through his progressions before going with the outlet. On a screen, the guard is likely pulling to open up the pathway for the RB. Only on a planned outlet is maybe the RB equivalent in value.

4. On the sidelines as he isn't the "3rd down back" (i.e. the one who is mostly responsible for #2 and #3). Remember, barring injury, the guard is on the field for all of the offensive snaps.

 

Yes, a incredibly good running back canake a mediocre line look acceptable. However, it is a lot easier to have a great line make a mediocre running back look good.

Oh Woz, come on brotha. There is no way a OG is more valuable than a RB. If you could have an elite guard or an elite RB you’d really take the guard? You’d rather have Scherff over Gurley? 

[turtle28]

5 hours ago, PARROTHEAD said:

Past decade-dozen years weve tried out over 30 backs. The one that did work, had the coach that could make any back work.

I see taking a rb that talented early as a waste. Like taking your kid to school in a Ferrari instead of a track day. Have no business getting it if you dont know how to use it. Get something you do know what to do with. Like a DL.

So as much as I want an LSU guy to cheer. Id much rather settle for picking DJ heading up our WR core in like the 3rd, than to pick Guice.

This decade we’ve tried out 30 or so running backs and none of them have worked out but Morris because we haven’t invested very high in a running back except for Matt Jones who McCloughan over drafted by 2 rounds.

There were several times many of us wanted to take different RBs in round 2 or 3, and we even discussed taking some in round 1 and if we had, our running game would be better than it’s been since 2015 but they didn’t do it so we are where we are. 

I love DJ but I’m not sure I’d take him in round 1, I’d take him in round 2 though.