2018 NFL DRAFT DISCUSSION

[Woz]

Just now, MKnight82 said:

Can you expand, cause I'm not following.

I meant that just two years out from that class, the Redskins have little to show for it. It was a decent class on the face of it, but those players should be comprising the core of the team going forward. Because of trades and releases, it's somewhat wiped out.

[turtle28]

Are we having this discussion again?

We run a 4-2-5 60 to 70% of the time. We have no idea how Settle will turn out and he and Ioannidis appear to be two different types of interior DL.

If I’m the organization I want to keep both guys but if one is gone it would probably be Settle. If Settle happens to be gone 5 years from now because we re-signed Ioannidis, Allen and gave Payne a 5th year option then so be it. I think it may be easier to draft another mid to late round guy to be a reserve DT/NT like Settle than to find a guy like Ioannidis who appears he could be a 4 plus sack every year as an interior DL in both the 3-4 or 4-3.

[ovfd55]

So according to Over the cap we currently would be getting a 3rd 55th and 2 6 comp picks next season

https://overthecap.com/2019-compensatory-draft-picks-update-5-8-2018/

 

Man I wish we woulda took the Saints deal and got the extra 1st next year,woulda set us up perfectly for future,no matter the outcome of this season.
 

[Woz]

1 minute ago, turtle28 said:

Are we having this discussion again?

No, you're just reading what you think I said. I'm not talking about switching to a four man front. I'm talking about the players that the Redskins have just drafted and how that might affect veteran players on the roster.

1 minute ago, turtle28 said:

We have no idea how Settle will turn out and he and Ioannidis appear to be two different types of interior DL.

All other things being equal, wouldn't you say that it is more likely that the Redskins will put Allen and Payne side by side on the field in a four man front? And that Ioannidis doesn't really fit as a four man front defensive end? So, thus if they ran a 4-2-5, that likely means Ioannidis is on the sideline?

Likewise, all other things being equal, wouldn't you say it is more likely that the Redskins will put Allen and Payne out as the defensive ends, and that Settle fits more of a 3-4 NT than Ioannidis does? Again, unless you think Ioannidis can convert to a 3-4 linebacker, doesn't this imply that he's going to have less snaps in a three man front?

Yes, he's the incumbent defensive lineman and is nominally the starter until otherwise noted. However, you really think the Redskins are going to have their first round picks buried behind him (barring injury)?

1 minute ago, turtle28 said:

If I’m the organization I want to keep both guys but if one is gone it would probably be Settle. If Settle happens to be gone 5 years from now because we re-signed Ioannidis, Allen and gave Payne a 5th year option then so be it. I think it may be easier to draft another mid to late round guy to be a reserve DT/NT like Settle than to find a guy like Ioannidis who appears he could be a 4 plus sack every year as an interior DL in both the 3-4 or 4-3.

1. Matt Ioannidis's rookie contract expires after the 2019 season (two years from now).
2. When Ioannidis's rookie contract expires, Jonathan Allen's rookie contract will have one more year remaining plus the fifth year option year.
3. When Ioannidis's rookie contract expires, Da'Ron Payne's rookie contract will have two more years remaining plus the fifth year option year.
4. When Ioannidis's rookie contract expires, Tim Settle's rookie contract will have two more years remaining. 
5. All three gentlemen listed in #2-4 will most likely have cheaper contracts than what Ioannidis could get on the open market.
6. Because of the formations and the desire to maximize the first round draft picks, Ioannidis could very easily be squeezed out of playing time.
7. Ioannidis was drafted by Scot McCloughan. Allen, Payne, and Settle were drafted by Brice Allen.

Given all of those facts, you think that the Redskins re-sign Ioannidis? That Ioannidis re-signs here?

[lavar703]

You’re also assuming Bruce is still here to make that decision. I believe this to be his last year here. 

[oldman9er]

Derwin James has some scrawny chicken legs. Good pass.  

[bigdog44]

I agree with Woz on Ioannidis. Doubt he’ll sign on the cheap and they’re just gonna have to spend a lot of money on the position in the near future, meaning when Ioaniddis’ deal is up. 

[turtle28]

From the reports I heard from Cooley, Gruden stood on the table for Ioannidis. Gruden fell in love with him at the senior bowl and wanted him. I don’t see Ioannidis getting a huge contract but if he did so be it, yes he’d be gone. I also don’t think all of a sudden Ioannidis is not going to be a good interior pass rusher or Lanier for that matter. I fully expect Allen, Ioannidis, Lanier and Payne to be rotated at DT when we run our 4-2-5. Last year, the first month of the season Ioannidis was getting more snaps than any of our DL. Perhaps that changes to Allen getting more, but I believe Ioannidis will continue to get 30 snaps a game or so. Payne wasn’t drafted to replace Allen or Ioannidis; he was drafted to replace Hood and play some snaps in the 4 man front, but not all of them.

[MikeT14]

The phrase "stood on the table for" is forever ruined for me thanks to John Beck. I will never trust it.

[RSkinGM]

Doug Williams is the new Ozzie Newsome ? He's getting the primary credit for a draft that has been rated fairly high ?  Wonder how Mr. Allen feels about talking a back seat credit wise ? Also, that name Kyle Smith pops up -- again !

http://www.redskins.com/news/blog/article-1/Walter-Football-Praises-Doug-Williams-Believes-Redskins-Capitalized-On-Value-Picks/fe509d09-11bc-4427-b997-f6264b0d226e

[Woz]

18 hours ago, lavar703 said:

You’re also assuming Bruce is still here to make that decision. I believe this to be his last year here. 

I don't believe we (as the fanbase) will be that lucky.

[Woz]

8 hours ago, turtle28 said:

From the reports I heard from Cooley, Gruden stood on the table for Ioannidis. Gruden fell in love with him at the senior bowl and wanted him.

1. Gruden loved Ryan Grant too.
2. Gruden banged the table for Ioannidis when they had nothing for defensive line talent. Now that they have Payne and Allen, is he still as smitten?
3. This is where the GM needs to pull rank over the coach and look beyond the "here and now."

8 hours ago, turtle28 said:

I don’t see Ioannidis getting a huge contract but if he did so be it, yes he’d be gone. I also don’t think all of a sudden Ioannidis is not going to be a good interior pass rusher or Lanier for that matter.

I never said that Ioannidis isn't good. I just said that his position group has suddenly become very crowded, including two extremely high value picks, and thus projected how the front office might approach his free agency status in 2019.

Honestly, because he is likely still going to be a good interior pass rusher, I would not be surprised in the least if the Redskins traded him sometime before next league year and get the best value for him as soon as possible instead of waiting on 2020 compensatory picks.

8 hours ago, turtle28 said:

I fully expect Allen, Ioannidis, Lanier and Payne to be rotated at DT when we run our 4-2-5. Last year, the first month of the season Ioannidis was getting more snaps than any of our DL. Perhaps that changes to Allen getting more, but I believe Ioannidis will continue to get 30 snaps a game or so.

1. Ioannidis got more snaps than Allen because Allen was a rookie.
2. Ioannidis got more snaps than McGee, Hood, and McClain because those guys are JAGs. Actually, McGee and Hood are JAGs; McClain wasn't even replacement level quality.
3. Ioannidis's snaps in the first four games (the four that Allen was playing full time): 33 of 68 (48.5%), 28 of 50 (56.0%), 28 of 51 (54.9%), and 40 of 76 (52.6%). So, if we assume better third down performance (i.e. they get off the bloody field), let's call it 60 snaps per game defensively. 30 snaps would mean 50% of the defensive plays. That is unlikely.

8 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Payne wasn’t drafted to replace Allen or Ioannidis; he was drafted to replace Hood and play some snaps in the 4 man front, but not all of them.

Teams do not generally use first round picks to replace backups/role players.

[turtle28]

2 hours ago, Woz said:

1. Gruden loved Ryan Grant too.
2. Gruden banged the table for Ioannidis when they had nothing for defensive line talent. Now that they have Payne and Allen, is he still as smitten?
3. This is where the GM needs to pull rank over the coach and look beyond the "here and now."

I never said that Ioannidis isn't good. I just said that his position group has suddenly become very crowded, including two extremely high value picks, and thus projected how the front office might approach his free agency status in 2019.

Honestly, because he is likely still going to be a good interior pass rusher, I would not be surprised in the least if the Redskins traded him sometime before next league year and get the best value for him as soon as possible instead of waiting on 2020 compensatory picks.

1. Ioannidis got more snaps than Allen because Allen was a rookie.
2. Ioannidis got more snaps than McGee, Hood, and McClain because those guys are JAGs. Actually, McGee and Hood are JAGs; McClain wasn't even replacement level quality.
3. Ioannidis's snaps in the first four games (the four that Allen was playing full time): 33 of 68 (48.5%), 28 of 50 (56.0%), 28 of 51 (54.9%), and 40 of 76 (52.6%). So, if we assume better third down performance (i.e. they get off the bloody field), let's call it 60 snaps per game defensively. 30 snaps would mean 50% of the defensive plays. That is unlikely.

Teams do not generally use first round picks to replace backups/role players.

Oh this deserves a whatever 

[Woz]

8 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Oh this deserves a whatever 

Does it not make sense that the Redskins would likely prioritize playing time for Da'Ron Payne at the expense of Matt Ioannidis? It may not be fair, but that's the way of the world.

[MKnight82]

6 minutes ago, Woz said:

Does it not make sense that the Redskins would likely prioritize playing time for Da'Ron Payne at the expense of Matt Ioannidis? It may not be fair, but that's the way of the world.

I don’t understand your logic here.  Why are you pigeon holing Payne at DE?  Isn’t Payne stepping in for the nothingness we’ve had at NT last year?  Cause that’s his game, he’s a run stuffer primarily.  I see Allen, Payne, Ioannidis being the starting 3 man line.

Settle may be bigger than Payne but that doesn’t make him a better NT.  Settles only a 5th round pick, I don’t see him as gauranteed to make the roster (although I think he will) much less start.  Now before you say hey wait Ioannidis was a 5th round pick too, that isn’t the same because he has proven to be successful in the pros, Settle hasn’t.  We should be starting the best 3 man line we’ve got, and that’s Allen, Payne, Ioannidis.

Also, if the argument is that we will only have 2 of those guys out there on nickel and we run that 60% of the time, I’d counter we likely didn’t run our base defense much because we didn’t have the NT to play it.  Now we do in spades.  Also, we got ran all over last year so I’d expect them to lean more towards heavier lineups to compensate.