2019 Draft Discussion

[Ragnarok]

3 hours ago, pacman5252 said:

I could take or leave Perry. Chronically injured and overpaid. I guess we have room and could gamble on him turning it around.

 

starting to hope for a OL in round one.

If we go Josh Allen or Zach Allen or Clelin Ferrell at 11 and then Cody Ford or Chris Lindstrom with the Saints pick, I would be thrilled.

And then we could add another edge rusher in the 2nd and DL in the 3rd.  Or maybe DL in the 2nd and Edge in the 3rd.  This should be a deep DL draft and I hope we take full advantage of that.  

[smetana34]

What's this safety and tackle class looking like? I know it's crazy deep at edge and defensive line. Deep enough to where I'd rather grab a safety and linemen with our firsts if that talent pool is more shallow and the value makes sense. There should be good edge players in the 2nd. 

[pacman5252]

2 hours ago, smetana34 said:

What's this safety and tackle class looking like? I know it's crazy deep at edge and defensive line. Deep enough to where I'd rather grab a safety and linemen with our firsts if that talent pool is more shallow and the value makes sense. There should be good edge players in the 2nd. 

I’d rather just take the stud BPA at need and forget about what is “deep.” It is amazing that every year when games get played, the later players taken at “deep” positions in round 2 are just replacement level starters. If you can get a stud rusher, you get them and don’t wait.

[AlexGreen#20]

5 hours ago, CWood21 said:

@AlexGreen#20 go take a look at Max Scharping out of Northern Illinois and let me know what you think.  Evaluating OL has been a real struggle for me.

 

Senior Bowl is going to matter a ton with him. He needs to prove he can anchor down in the 1v1s. That's the biggest question mark I have based on this video. He just doesn't ever get challenged on it here. There may be other clips that you could make the call off of, but I'm struggling here.

On the whole, looks like a pretty quick guy with tackle feet. He gets to the second level quick. He's got quick feet in his kick step but you'd like to see him get a little more depth with those steps, I don't see any reason you'd knock him for that though. Just a matter of getting him there in practice.

The hands look fairly well developed as well. This isn't Marshall Newhouse who preferred to block with his face. They've got him "hugging" (throwing his hands after the edge rusher) which is what you want to see out of a college tackle stepping into this blocking scheme (If we're still using the same blocking scheme when  he would potentially be drafted.) He needs to take the next step and start locking guys out though. 

If the measurements he's got posted are legit, (6-6 320) with as impressive a wingspan as they're saying, he's got a lot of potential. I'm a little skeptical he's that heavy. Again, not the end of the world, just something you need to work on with him. Very few guys are going to be perfect coming in, and this is a fixable one.

Only athletic thing with him that I question is the flexibility. The man plays high in his stance as a pass protector. That slows him down a little bit against counter moves (again, with msot guys in college, you're lucky if they use one move, much less string a few together) and I worry how it'll show against legit power rushers. Maybe the weight is enough to make up for it. He's just a wee bit of a waist bender, which is far from the end of the world, most guys are. 

On the downside, I question the nastiness and the pure drive skills. 

He run blocks with his hands, which is a little strange. You never really see him put a shoulder into a guy and blow him up on the combo blocks. Even Bakhtiari lowers the shoulder and pounds guys out of the gap. This guy shoves them. He's got fairly heavy hands and that can work in college, but it's not going to work in the pros. Just from a nastiness perspective you'd like to see him be lowering that shoulder and blowing guys up. 

He doesn't go after guys, he's very much a step and seal blocker. That's fine if you're going to be an exclusively zone team, but there aren't any of those in the NFL. He needs to get mean and start pursuing ILBs to try and bury them on the second level (not be over aggressive and over pursue, just take some pride in minimally running them out of the play). He needs to be looking to push Edge guys out of their lane on his down blocks to widen up those off tackle run gaps. He's got a bad habit of standing up with them.

I hate to throw out the label "soft" because basically all of these guys coming from these schemes have a tendency to play like what used to get you that label, but it's something to keep an eye on. Hopefully you get him to the senior bowl, into a "real" NFL scheme with legit blocking opportunities and he starts taking his kill shots. 

Overall,

Show me the anchor ability and I'll show you a second round pick ala Spriggs. The tools are there for him to be an adequate starter at left tackle if you can polish it up. 

If you're comfortable with your RT not showing much nasty (some are, some aren't) he's very much in play as a developmental tackle in the middle rounds. If he can show the anchor and the nasty in the senior bowl, you might even see him get into that pick 45 range. 

I don't love him at Guard for the same reason that many may not like him at RT. Rodger Saffold is making it work late in his career though, so it's not like there's anything physically stopping Scharping from playing there. You're going to like him a lot more there if you're a pass heavy, predominantly zone running team (hey, that's us). No doubt he's got the feet to make those zone steps. 

As of now, I'd put him down as a 3rd-4th round pick. Let him try at RT and if he fails there, move him to Guard and stop sweating the more complicated stuff.

 

 

[packfanfb]

Top 10 here we come! Get er done.

[Leader]

27 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

Top 10 here we come! Get er done.

Your optimism is concerning.

[packfanfb]

1 hour ago, Leader said:

Your optimism is concerning.

Sadly, I don't think we'll get a top 10 pick because we've got some easy games on the horizon and while we aren't playing well, we likely will still win most of the homes games if not all of them. Still have this very bad feeling we are going to finish 8-7-1, which is the worst outcome you could get for this squad. 

[CWood21]

3 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

As of now, I'd put him down as a 3rd-4th round pick. Let him try at RT and if he fails there, move him to Guard and stop sweating the more complicated stuff.

Appreciate the read.  Definitely feel the same way for him.  Felt his feet are going to give him a ton of play, and that's generally the first thing I look for in OL.  Honestly, he's probably better value than some of the other guys that are going to go ahead of him.

[AlexGreen#20]

26 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Appreciate the read.  Definitely feel the same way for him.  Felt his feet are going to give him a ton of play, and that's generally the first thing I look for in OL.  Honestly, he's probably better value than some of the other guys that are going to go ahead of him.

Agree with that completely. You can make a living off of mid round, small school, lineman.

[Packerraymond]

11 hours ago, CWood21 said:

@AlexGreen#20 go take a look at Max Scharping out of Northern Illinois and let me know what you think.  Evaluating OL has been a real struggle for me.

 

Recruited him early for a bit before the offers came, good to see him doing well.

[Leader]

CBS:

Pick 1

Josh Allen, EDGE, Kentucky
Right now, just a few days before December, it's difficult to peg where Allen will land in the 2019 Draft. He's been incredibly productive in his senior season at Kentucky after a seven-sack, 10.5 tackle for loss year as a junior. A truly versatile defender, Allen's proven capable of not only dropping into coverage but making plays on the football while retreating, somewhat of a rarity of edge-rushers. 

But he's not very refined using his hands when in a one-on-one battle with an offensive lineman who can meet him at the pass-rushing apex. Now, in college, most offensive tackles can't do that, because Allen is a speed demon to and around the edge, and his bend to the quarterback can't be taught. But I do think his lack of a counter-move repertoire will drop him out of the top 10, and, potentially, right into Mike Pettine's lap. And, by the way, Allen seems like the type of prospect Pettine dreams about at night, a prototypical 3-4 outside linebacker who can provide a multi-faceted front-seven threat on defense. That's why I have Allen listed first.

Oh, and interior defensive linemen Kenny Clark and Mike Daniels are currently the club's premier pass-rushers. And while Clay Matthews hasn't exactly become a shell of his former self, he's certainly past his prime and playing in the final year of his contract. Nick Perry's not going anywhere, thanks to a big extension he received in 2017, but the Packers need to upgrade the edge-rusher positions, and Allen would make plenty of sense here. 

Other option at same position: Jachai Polite, Florida

Deionte Thompson, S, Alabama
If the Packers place a high priority on filling the hole created by the Ha Ha Clinton-Dix trade, they might do so with another Alabama safety. Thompson is the premier prospect at his position in the 2019 Draft, and while he hasn't been a superb play-maker in terms of his numbers -- two interceptions and five pass breakups thus far in 2018 -- he possesses top-level athleticism to range from the deep middle or fly downhill to thump against the run. 

The safety spot has to be addressed at some point in the 2019 offseason for the Packers, as no one at that spot has emerged as a sure-fire starter for next season, and Kentrell Brice has been a liability. After picking defensive backs with each of their first two selections in 2017 and 2018, Packers fans may not love their team grabbing Thompson here (and he could be available late in Round 1). But unless a quality starting safety is acquired in free agency, it'd be a prudent selection. 

Other option at same position: Taylor Rapp, Washington

Ben Powers, OG, Oklahoma
The 2019 offensive guard class isn't exactly top-heavy, but Powers appears to be the most NFL-ready pass-blocker at his spot, which clearly would make him a candidate to be on Green Bay's roster early.

We'll learn more about Powers over the next month, as his Sooners are the favorites in the Big 12 title game and could sneak into the College Football Playoff. Even if the latter doesn't happen, Powers will likely play two more at least reasonably talented defensive lines to end what's been an illustrious collegiate career in Norman. 

For as good as Green Bay is on the edges and in the middle of its offensive line, the guard spot has been an Achilles heel all season. Powers would be a shrewd pick for a team with its Super Bowl win still open for a few more seasons. 

Other option at same position: Beau Benzschawel, Wisconsin

Pick 2 

Irv Smith Jr., TE, Alabama
Tight end will be (is?) a sneaky need for the Packers. Jimmy Graham hasn't exploded like many thought he would, and Mercedes Lewis and Lance Kendricks are set to hit free agency in 2019. 

While not to O.J. Howard's level as a tight end prospect from Alabama, I think Smith Jr. will rise up draft boards over the next few months thanks to the spotlight he's bound to be in over the next few weeks and what I expect him to do at the combine. The 6-foot-4, 246-pound junior has 35 grabs for 617 yards and seven touchdowns heading into the SEC title game this weekend. He has impeccable yards-after-the-catch skills for the position and can make difficult catches in traffic. No, this isn't a huge need for Green Bay, but this is kinda-sorta luxury territory.

Other options at same position: Kaden Smith, Stanford or Noah Fant, Iowa

Marquise Brown, WR, Oklahoma
Randall Cobb's days in Green Bay are numbered. He's appeared in only five games so far this season thanks to nagging injuries, and he's a free agent in March. 

Yes, the Packers picked a trio of big, fast, athletic, and somewhat raw receivers later in the 2018 Draft possibly as insurance for an impending Cobb departure, and Davante Adams has emerged as one of the best, most reliable pass-catchers in the NFC. But Brown would be the ideal Cobb replacement as a small, twitchy run-after-the-catch speedster who can also take the top off the defense. Because of his size, it's unlikely he goes early in the first round, but no one would fault Green Bay for grabbing him with one of the final selections in Round 1. 

Other option at same position: Deebo Samuel, South Carolina

Montez Sweat, EDGE, Mississippi State
If the Packers can't land an edge-rusher they like with their first pick in the 2019 Draft, they could do a lot worse than picking Sweat with their second selection. 

A tall, high-motor defender, Sweat may get the "stiff" label by some scouts and GMs, but his production in the SEC speaks for itself -- 22 sacks and 29.5 tackles for loss since the start of 2017 -- and he plays with plenty of power and a decent amount of pass-rushing moves. Pettine wouldn't feel as comfortable dropping Sweat on zone blitzes as he would with Allen, yet the former would be a logical pick for Green Bay in this range.

Other option at same position: Joe Jackson, Miami

[vegas492]

12 hours ago, CWood21 said:

@AlexGreen#20 go take a look at Max Scharping out of Northern Illinois and let me know what you think.  Evaluating OL has been a real struggle for me.

 

I dig watching o-line tape.

Wrote up a few things I saw...my old man was an o-line coach at heart, he told me what to look for a few times....

Pluses....Nice length to the torso and arms.  Back isn't the best, but it isn't bad, either.  Shows nice power when he gets arms extended into a guy, he turns ends easily.  He doesn't look quick, or fast, but he can get to the second level and appears comfortable in the mayhem.  Recognizes stunts quickly.  Really gets out of his stance quickly and on balance.

Minuses....Feet aren't quick or choppy.  They aren't slow, but they aren't fast either.  Plays too tall.  Finesse player.  Not nasty at all.  He didn't put a single guy on the ground, nor did he end up on the ground.  Couple of times he had the opportunity to really drill a small guy on a wide run, and he either whiffed or flat out didn't try to get the block.  Those are the easy and fun ones to make.  Got caught twice on inside moves.  Feet came together and darned near crossed.  That's an issue.  The recognition of an inside move and how to anchor against the spin or rip across the face.

Final thoughts.  I don't see a guard.  He lacks the center of gravity, power and most importantly, physicality to play guard in the NFL.  As a left tackle, he needs one of two things...quicker feet, or more mass to anchor better.  As a right tackle, those feet are fine, just needs more power and a little more attitude.

I don't know what to compare him to, in terms of where he should be in the draft, but there are some nice traits there to work with.  If I had to assign a round, I'd say mid round 3 to end of 4.  I think many teams would enjoy a prospect like him in the 4'th as a swing tackle with starter ability if a trait or two gets enhanced during off season strength and training programs.

 

[LuckyIrish23]

Seeing the media moving up the EDGE prospects higher with talk about Allen/Polite going in the top 10 with other top defensive prospects. If that scenario happens and Packers have the 14th pick would you consider Devin White ILB from LSU a consideration?

Similar player to Roquan Smith and feel that he gets off blocks really well. 

[AlexGreen#20]

2 minutes ago, LuckyIrish23 said:

Seeing the media moving up the EDGE prospects higher with talk about Allen/Polite going in the top 10 with other top defensive prospects. If that scenario happens and Packers have the 14th pick would you consider Devin White ILB from LSU a consideration?

Similar player to Roquan Smith and feel that he gets off blocks really well. 

No, no low impact position players in the top 20.

[LuckyIrish23]

23 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

No, no low impact position players in the top 20.

Do you think that has been changing when it’s a blue chip prospect? You see Roquan Smith and LVE playing up to their draft status.