Around the NFL II - Even NFLier

[J-ALL-DAY]

10 minutes ago, NinerNation21 said:

Is this your opinion, or did you see this somewhere?

No, asking what you guys would think if we offered that for Green.

4 minutes ago, Gore Whore 21 said:

Too rich for my blood. An oft injured 31 year old receiver is not worth that type of draft capital. 

Understood, but this move could be the difference between us winning it all or falling short.

[nayad]

36 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

2020 3rd rounder and 2021 2nd rounder for AJ Green....you say.............?

I'd pass

If Pierre Garcon was any type of learning experience, 31 and injured is not the type of investment I want to make in a receiver. Even when it doesnt cost any draft capital. 

 

[NinerNation21]

49 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

No, asking what you guys would think if we offered that for Green.

Understood, but this move could be the difference between us winning it all or falling short.

Ohh, gotcha. I thought maybe there were rumors floating around. I wouldn't give up a second for him. His value is going to decrease each season from here on out, so giving up a premium pick for him doesn't make sense to me. I'd give up a 2020 4th and a conditional 2021 pick that could go as high as a 5th or low as a 7th based on time on the field. 

[Forge]

1 hour ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

2020 3rd rounder and 2021 2nd rounder for AJ Green....you say.............?

@y2lamanaki and I are in on the Barnwell trade. Flip of first / second this year with a second next year. 

That being said, the one caveat I would put on that is that I have to see him play prior to the deadline to evaluate him in that perspective. Need to see him get open, run routes cleanly, etc (obviously, given that team production is going to be hit and miss). 

[John232]

Another random name I'd be interested in this off-season..Josh Rosen. With Beathard being trash and Mullens being a RFA (iirc) Rosen could be someone we could possibly acquire for like a 4th or a 5th and a player.  Coming out of college, he felt like one of the better fits for our system and he might be a really good guy to have sit behind Jimmy and either groom to trade away or just have as a solid insurance policy. 

[y2lamanaki]

22 minutes ago, nayad said:

I'd pass

If Pierre Garcon was any type of learning experience, 31 and injured is not the type of investment I want to make in a receiver. Even when it doesnt cost any draft capital. 

 

I do get the injury concern as a reason not to want to give up draft picks. That's definitely valid. But Pierre Garcon is not a valid reason in my opinion. There is just a world of difference between Pierre Garcon and AJ Green, both as receivers and in the types of injuries suffered. Plus there are a variety of guys that one could point to at the receiver position who have overcome injuries in their 30s and continued playing at their former high levels. Despite some bad luck, Green's performance on the field has never faltered. 

Right now, in a year that looks more and more like one where we could have a legitimate chance at the Super Bowl, our top producing wide receiver is Marqise Goodwin and he is on pace for 579 yards one year after our top receiver was Kendrick Bourne with 487. I have a hard time believing even an injured AJ Green, who is used to playing with Andy Dalton on a team not generally known for its offensive creativity, would produce less than those numbers, even in only 8 or 9 games. That would be a huge upgrade at the one spot on this team that has obvious weaknesses. 

We're not even talking giving up a 1st here (at least in this scenario). Even if Armstead and Ward both walk after this season, you cannot point to one single position on this team and say definitively that a first round pick is going to start. They could certainly compete with Moore at FS (most likely spot), Person at RG (2nd most likely), or Thomas on the DL (3rd most likely), but otherwise that's it. The exception is WR, which could be wide open, but would be a lot less so if AJ Green is playing there. But we're not even talking losing THAT pick in this scenario. 

We're talking about a 3rd - who almost certainly would just be depth at any position. And even if we re-signed nobody, this team still has proven it has a lot of depth. Even if you look ahead to guys not signed past 2020 (who the extra 2nd round pick in this proposed trade would help replace), you're basically adding in Sherman, Coleman, Witherspoon, DJ Jones, and Trent Taylor. And not all of them are just going to walk.

AJ Green can put this team over the top with little detriment to the longterm health of the squad (since Green would be the guy essentially chosen with one pick, we're basically losing just one depth player). That's worth it to me for an even better chance at Lombardi Trophy #6.

[y2lamanaki]

10 minutes ago, John232 said:

Another random name I'd be interested in this off-season..Josh Rosen. With Beathard being trash and Mullens being a RFA (iirc) Rosen could be someone we could possibly acquire for like a 4th or a 5th and a player.  Coming out of college, he felt like one of the better fits for our system and he might be a really good guy to have sit behind Jimmy and either groom to trade away or just have as a solid insurance policy. 

Mullens would be an ERFA as he spent all of 2017 on the practice squad and did not accrue a season in the NFL. He's going nowhere. 

That said, I wouldn't hate looking Rosen's way at a smaller cost. 

[nayad]

9 minutes ago, y2lamanaki said:

I do get the injury concern as a reason not to want to give up draft picks. That's definitely valid. But Pierre Garcon is not a valid reason in my opinion. There is just a world of difference between Pierre Garcon and AJ Green, both as receivers and in the types of injuries suffered. Plus there are a variety of guys that one could point to at the receiver position who have overcome injuries in their 30s and continued playing at their former high levels. Despite some bad luck, Green's performance on the field has never faltered. 

Right now, in a year that looks more and more like one where we could have a legitimate chance at the Super Bowl, our top producing wide receiver is Marqise Goodwin and he is on pace for 579 yards one year after our top receiver was Kendrick Bourne with 487. I have a hard time believing even an injured AJ Green, who is used to playing with Andy Dalton on a team not generally known for its offensive creativity, would produce less than those numbers, even in only 8 or 9 games. That would be a huge upgrade at the one spot on this team that has obvious weaknesses. 

We're not even talking giving up a 1st here (at least in this scenario). Even if Armstead and Ward both walk after this season, you cannot point to one single position on this team and say definitively that a first round pick is going to start. They could certainly compete with Moore at FS (most likely spot), Person at RG (2nd most likely), or Thomas on the DL (3rd most likely), but otherwise that's it. The exception is WR, which could be wide open, but would be a lot less so if AJ Green is playing there. But we're not even talking losing THAT pick in this scenario. 

We're talking about a 3rd - who almost certainly would just be depth at any position. And even if we re-signed nobody, this team still has proven it has a lot of depth. Even if you look ahead to guys not signed past 2020 (who the extra 2nd round pick in this proposed trade would help replace), you're basically adding in Sherman, Coleman, Witherspoon, DJ Jones, and Trent Taylor. And not all of them are just going to walk.

AJ Green can put this team over the top with little detriment to the longterm health of the squad (since Green would be the guy essentially chosen with one pick, we're basically losing just one depth player). That's worth it to me for an even better chance at Lombardi Trophy #6.

Garcon was the 49ers example, if you want a better match think Demaryius Thomas (who went for a 4th). The injuries, age, and 7 or 8 games he's going to be under contract are enough reason for me to not want to give a 3rd and future 2nd. I guess I like Goodwin more than most because I think he's proven he's got elite speed and ball skills and a firm understanding of this complex scheme. I also have some faith that we're going to get a boost at the receiver spot once Trent Taylor is back. He was really good in Jimmy's first 5 games in 2017.

Why is AJ Green the only option to trade for? What about Keenan Allen, Stefon Diggs for that true #1 or Robby Anderson if we want that one year rental?  If Detroit slips up maybe Marvin Jones becomes available. 

I think there are other options that lead to a superbowl victory that doesnt handicap the future roster construction.

 

[y2lamanaki]

39 minutes ago, nayad said:

Garcon was the 49ers example, if you want a better match think Demaryius Thomas (who went for a 4th). The injuries, age, and 7 or 8 games he's going to be under contract are enough reason for me to not want to give a 3rd and future 2nd. I guess I like Goodwin more than most because I think he's proven he's got elite speed and ball skills and a firm understanding of this complex scheme. I also have some faith that we're going to get a boost at the receiver spot once Trent Taylor is back. He was really good in Jimmy's first 5 games in 2017.

Why is AJ Green the only option to trade for? What about Keenan Allen, Stefon Diggs for that true #1 or Robby Anderson if we want that one year rental?  If Detroit slips up maybe Marvin Jones becomes available. 

I think there are other options that lead to a superbowl victory that doesnt handicap the future roster construction.

 

There's some real irony in here. I was a big fan of Goodwin through 2017, but I don't know where his ball skills are. The drop last week is a pretty prime example of a lack of them. And to point out Goodwin and Trent Taylor as alternatives to Green due to injuries is a very curious point to make.

AJ Green isn't the only trade option certainly, but I am not sure the others you listed are. The Vikings now have seen what they are capable of when they have a balanced offense that gets Thielen and Diggs involved. I don't know why the Chargers would give up their #1 receiver in his prime when they are typically in playoff contention. The Lions won't be out of anything by the trade deadline and don't have anyone behind Golladay and Jones, and what does Robby Anderson give us that we don't already have? 

The Bengals, on the other hand, are a bad franchise that is in clear need of total rebuild, and Green is likely helping them more if they can get something for him. Maybe they aren't kidding about not trading him, but he would appear to be most available to me. He's definitely the most talented/consistent performer of those mentioned here.

[Forge]

47 minutes ago, nayad said:

Why is AJ Green the only option to trade for? What about Keenan Allen, Stefon Diggs for that true #1 or Robby Anderson if we want that one year rental?  If Detroit slips up maybe Marvin Jones becomes available. 

 

Why would the Chargers trade Allen? They are struggling, but Rivers likely isn't going anywhere, the team is still built to attempt to compete in the immediate future. I don't think that is a team that is selling off parts because of a down season, and I'm not even that sure that they would give up on the season as is. The cost to get him would be huge too, in my opinion. He's under contract one more year at only 8.5 million, which is absurd. If they are trading him, hell yeah, I'd look into it. But I see almost 0% feasibility there. 

Diggs' time has come and gone. Just don't see a team with super bowl aspirations trading off one of their best players. Winning cures a lot of ills and they are riding a bit high right now after the last two weeks with Cousins trying to get himself right. 

I would have no interest in Robby Anderson at all...and given his off the field problems, I'd be surprised if this FO would either. He's also not likely to be an improvement over what we have. He flashes with big play ability, but he's not really a full throttle receiver. I don't see the improvement there. 

Marvin Jones is interesting though. Not sure that I would want to go there, but I'm not shutting the door on him either. He doesn't give us the number one that we need, but may be a slightly more consistent wr2. Just not sure I want to pony up assets for that because I"m not sure on any given day that he's an actual improvement on what we have, so I find the net gain to potentially be nominal. 

It's starting to get interesting now because we are less than 2 weeks from the deadline, and Denver is sitting there in contention, so Manny may not become available, which would take an option off the table. After that, for realistic trade targets that may be available, it may only be Green, if you want me to be perfectly honest. I'd put in a call to the Titans about Davis for sure, but I find it unlikely they'd move him. This is another thing that makes OJ Howard pretty interesting for a 3rd or something. Is Davante Parker an improvement? Probably not...at least not one I'd care to go give up assets for. 

Honestly, I'd put in a call to the Bucs for Mike Evans. That's not even a joke. Godwin is a stud and they are going to have to pay him soon (like, potentially after this year), and having that much in assets rolled into a not as vitally important position is bad asset management. But other than that, there just really isn't much out there if teams like Denver stay in the race. Sanu is basically running exclusively out of the slot at this point for the Falcons, and I don't know that it's a big enough net gain. 

If you're going to take a swing at receiver, I just think it has to be big. At least enough where I Feel like we actually have a net gain, and for a lot of those guys who could be moved, you may get a littl emore consistency on an individual basis, but I'm not overly concerned about that because I always think that given the group that we have, someone will show up competently enough, just not take a step past that. So for me, Green is the easiest, and I'd put calls in on Davis and Evans. 

[NinerNation21]

 

 

 

1

1 hour ago, John232 said:

Another random name I'd be interested in this off-season..Josh Rosen. With Beathard being trash and Mullens being a RFA (iirc) Rosen could be someone we could possibly acquire for like a 4th or a 5th and a player.  Coming out of college, he felt like one of the better fits for our system and he might be a really good guy to have sit behind Jimmy and either groom to trade away or just have as a solid insurance policy. 

Hard pass on this for me with the bolded above being the reason why. Why would we trade picks for a below-average QB when we have a pretty decent back who knows the system and is dirt cheap. Mullens is actually an ERFA, which means he either signs a cheap deal with us this offseason or he's out of football - no middle ground there. 2021 he's an RFA, which is still a very team-friendly deal. 2022, he will be a UFA, which he has the right to go out and find somewhere to start if that's what he wants. Rosen's rookie deal expires in 2022 as well. There just isn't value here that I can see. 

TL;DR: No need to invest assets for a more expensive QB when we have the cheaper (maybe better?) option already in house under control for the same amount of time.

[GW21]

28 minutes ago, y2lamanaki said:

There's some real irony in here. I was a big fan of Goodwin through 2017, but I don't know where his ball skills are. The drop last week is a pretty prime example of a lack of them. And to point out Goodwin and Trent Taylor as alternatives to Green due to injuries is a very curious point to make.

AJ Green isn't the only trade option certainly, but I am not sure the others you listed are. The Vikings now have seen what they are capable of when they have a balanced offense that gets Thielen and Diggs involved. I don't know why the Chargers would give up their #1 receiver in his prime when they are typically in playoff contention. The Lions won't be out of anything by the trade deadline and don't have anyone behind Golladay and Jones, and what does Robby Anderson give us that we don't already have? 

The Bengals, on the other hand, are a bad franchise that is in clear need of total rebuild, and Green is likely helping them more if they can get something for him. Maybe they aren't kidding about not trading him, but he would appear to be most available to me. He's definitely the most talented/consistent performer of those mentioned here.

Talented? Yes. Consistent? I would argue not. Green has had issues staying on the field pretty much his whole career.

[Forge]

3 minutes ago, Gore Whore 21 said:

Talented? Yes. Consistent? I would argue not. Green has had issues staying on the field pretty much his whole career.

Think he was referring to consistency with regards to on field production. 

Definitely a risk in the injury department. 

 

[Forge]

Man, you really have to feel for Washington fans. EVerything I have read sounds like Allen has absolutely no interest in moving Williams. Preposterous at this point. Wrong side of 30, needs a new constract, hasn't suited up all year, injury prone at this point and probably not part of longer term rebuilding plans. And Allen is just stonewalling anyone asking for him. Bruce allen is just so bad, man. 

[y2lamanaki]

1 hour ago, Gore Whore 21 said:

Talented? Yes. Consistent? I would argue not. Green has had issues staying on the field pretty much his whole career.

If you would argue not, kindly point me in the direction of the other active receivers who have made 7 straight Pro Bowls in their career. If it's easier, here is the full list:

Larry Fitzgerald