5th Down Depreciation Thread

[MacReady]

41 minutes ago, Tartarus said:

Lol at comparing MVS to Jordy. 

Some people aren’t all there 

Lol at saying I compared MVS to Jordy.  I might not be all there, but you’re not there at all.

[MacReady]

44 minutes ago, Gopackgonerd said:

How many snaps is MVS getting?

Not enough.  He needs to be on the field more to present some illusion of a deep threat.  Teams aren’t afraid of Geronimo or Lazard or Kumerow beating them deep, so that leaves solely Davante to cover deep.

[OneTwoSixFive]

1 hour ago, Outpost31 said:

You saw why in the images AG posted.  Rodgers is either terrible at reads or actively avoids open receivers.  It’s one or the other.  Options are open, Rodgers has time, he’s not executing.  It is Rodgers and only Rodgers.  He needs to get his head dislodged from his own *******.  He throws that deep pass to MVS half a second earlier it’s a TD.  Hits Lewis the drive continues.  Extends drives and our defense is on the field less.  

No QB will ever actively avoid open receivers, it simply isn't in their DNA. you need to look elsewhere for the answer.

Maybe with the punishment he has taken over the years (and it's a lot, given his play-style) has affected his diagnosis speed. Maybe the scheme is somehow at fault, maybe he is spending more time on seeing who is coming at him and less looking downfield. Whatever it is, he isn't actively avoiding open receivers, no matter what it looks like on film.

[Gopackgonerd]

2 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Not enough.  He needs to be on the field more to present some illusion of a deep threat.  Teams aren’t afraid of Geronimo or Lazard or Kumerow beating them deep, so that leaves solely Davante to cover deep.

Especially GMO. Hell I'd even want Kumerow over him out there at this point.

[Mazrimiv]

Has it really come to debating whether Rodgers is "actively" avoiding throws to open receivers, or is not throwing to them for some other reason?   Does it matter?  At this point there is no shortage of film showing plays with receivers open, Rodgers looking in the general area of those receivers, but choosing to hold the ball.  I don't actually care what the specific reason is.  In that scenario, all paths lead to Rodgers not doing his job properly.

[Gopackgonerd]

5 minutes ago, Mazrimiv said:

Has it really come to debating whether Rodgers is "actively" avoiding throws to open receivers, or is not throwing to them for some other reason?   Does it matter?  At this point there is no shortage of film showing plays with receivers open, Rodgers looking in the general area of those receivers, but choosing to hold the ball.  I don't actually care what the specific reason is.  In that scenario, all paths lead to Rodgers not doing his job properly.

Someone on twitter was trying to defend Rodgers by saying he couldn't see a wide open WR over his linemen on a play lol.

[{Family Ghost}]

2 hours ago, Gopackgonerd said:

Especially GMO. Hell I'd even want Kumerow over him out there at this point.

GMO and Kumerow need to be elsewhere next year.  

[Scoremore]

7 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Why?

Because he said so.  Also I am the eternal optimist.  Said he's gotta get hot.  He's going to get hot.  So shall it be written so shall it be done.  It's having faith in Aaron which I have.  Packers will make it to the divisional round perhaps the NFC championship.  Now I have to get back to polishing my Green and Gold glasses.  Happy Thanksgiving guys. 

[Norm]

I wanna edit that state farm commercial that said Aaron doesn't play it safe. Right after he says that, I'll splice in the video of him taking a sack on 4th down so he could try again on 5th and 15.

[MacReady]

The three things Rodgers needs to do in order to have a good game:

1. Pass to running backs early and often.  This forces teams to account for them.  Look at all the games we've played well and Jones/Williams were targeted early and often.  Look at all the games we've played poorly and they were hardly targeted at all, and if they were it wasn't until we were practically out of the game.
2. Get rid of the ball quickly.  Rodgers has to get out of the bad habit he developed in 2015. 
3. Throw the ball down the middle of the field. 

I'm 100% convinced these are the three things LaFleur tries his hardest to get Rodgers to do.  Coming off of each loss this year, THOSE are the three things Rodgers did the very next week. 

Yes, I still 100% believe it's Aaron's ego that keeps him from doing these three things. 

*He's a very particular QB, and I absolutely believe that he sees passes to running backs (especially dumpoff passes) as beneath him.  Look at his pass attempt for Vitale yesterday.  Sailed like 57 yards over his head. 
*He literally said sometime after the 2011 season that one of his major tenets is not throwing the football late down the middle.  I think that's changed to never.  As AG asked earlier, what happened to the quick slant?  It showed up a couple times yesterday I think I recall.  Go figure it had to come after a loss. 
*He takes too long because he is always waiting for something deeper.  Anybody who isn't Pugger or the Gate Keeper can see that he hurts this team by not taking what's open to him and instead holding onto the football until it's too late.

Him being able to do these things against a 2 win team is encouraging.  We need him to do them against the Vikings.  The Seahawks.  The Saints...

[TheBitzMan]

13 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

The three things Rodgers needs to do in order to have a good game:

1. Pass to running backs early and often.  This forces teams to account for them.  Look at all the games we've played well and Jones/Williams were targeted early and often.  Look at all the games we've played poorly and they were hardly targeted at all, and if they were it wasn't until we were practically out of the game.
2. Get rid of the ball quickly.  Rodgers has to get out of the bad habit he developed in 2015. 
3. Throw the ball down the middle of the field. 

Still had some ups and downs yesterday and some of his decision making is just baffling but this was a good thing to see.

"From ESPN Stats and Info: Aaron Rodgers took advantage of the Giants over the middle of the field Sunday, going 11-of-12 for 170 yards and 3 TDs between the field numbers. That's his best completion percentage, most TDs and 5th most yards on those passes over the last 3 seasons. He went 6-of-6 with 2 TDs on passes 15+ yards downfield and between the numbers. That's his most such completions in a game in his career."

[MacReady]

Just now, TheBitzMan said:

Still had some ups and downs yesterday and some of his decision making is just baffling but this was a good thing to see.

"From ESPN Stats and Info: Aaron Rodgers took advantage of the Giants over the middle of the field Sunday, going 11-of-12 for 170 yards and 3 TDs between the field numbers. That's his best completion percentage, most TDs and 5th most yards on those passes over the last 3 seasons. He went 6-of-6 with 2 TDs on passes 15+ yards downfield and between the numbers. That's his most such completions in a game in his career."

It's almost like teams are purposefully playing light in the middle because they know Rodgers doesn't throw there.  Dead serious, too.  As long as they have someone close to a receiver, I feel like that's considered tight coverage to Rodgers. 

I hate how predictable and easy to gameplan against Rodgers is.  With Favre, it was like, "Let's hope we get interceptions."  There was no gameplanning against Favre because he'd just wing it each and every week.  Some weeks he'd throw a lot to Ruvell Martin, others he'd get Green 37 catches or just throw it deep all game...

Favre was also the best screen passer in the history of the NFL.  I wish I could come up with some clips of him JUST throwing screens.  They were a thing of absolute beauty.  PERFECTLY timed, perfectly thrown so the receiver could catch it and go. 

Could you imagine what our offense would look like if Aaron Jones had 73 receptions like Ahman Green had in 2000? 

After the halfway point of the year for us, Jones had 34 receptions.  For 354 yards. 

Since week 8?  He's had 5 receptions for 12 yards.  He had 4 receptions for 13 yards against the Giants yesterday. 

Any idiot can see he needs to be more involved in our receiving game. 

[Mr. Fussnputz]

21 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

The three things Rodgers needs to do in order to have a good game:

1. Pass to running backs early and often.  This forces teams to account for them.  Look at all the games we've played well and Jones/Williams were targeted early and often.  Look at all the games we've played poorly and they were hardly targeted at all, and if they were it wasn't until we were practically out of the game.
2. Get rid of the ball quickly.  Rodgers has to get out of the bad habit he developed in 2015. 
3. Throw the ball down the middle of the field. 

I'm 100% convinced these are the three things LaFleur tries his hardest to get Rodgers to do.  Coming off of each loss this year, THOSE are the three things Rodgers did the very next week. 

Yes, I still 100% believe it's Aaron's ego that keeps him from doing these three things. 

*He's a very particular QB, and I absolutely believe that he sees passes to running backs (especially dumpoff passes) as beneath him.  Look at his pass attempt for Vitale yesterday.  Sailed like 57 yards over his head. 
*He literally said sometime after the 2011 season that one of his major tenets is not throwing the football late down the middle.  I think that's changed to never.  As AG asked earlier, what happened to the quick slant?  It showed up a couple times yesterday I think I recall.  Go figure it had to come after a loss. 
*He takes too long because he is always waiting for something deeper.  Anybody who isn't Pugger or the Gate Keeper can see that he hurts this team by not taking what's open to him and instead holding onto the football until it's too late.

Him being able to do these things against a 2 win team is encouraging.  We need him to do them against the Vikings.  The Seahawks.  The Saints...

I think you're pretty much spot on in your criticism of Rodgers, but there's another thing going on that occurred to me while watching the Houston/NE game last night. I was suddenly struck by the personnel similarities between GB and NE on offense. Both have aging future Hall of Fame QBs; both have a top shelf WR and a bunch of JAGs; both have former good, but aging TEs; both have a top scatback. Romeo Crennell showed the league how to defend against that last night: stack the box against the run, double team the top shelf WR, and challenge the JAGs to beat you. In the case of the Giants, they didn't have the secondary to shut down our other WRs and #13 burned them, even Allison got into the act. Against a competent secondary, however, the JAG WRs aren't going to deliver. That's what I saw last night in Houston, and that was certainly a contributing factor in the San Francisco game. This flaw in the offense will also take another offseason to address. Jimmy Graham should be gone and his money should go to signing a solid number two WR. Hopefully Sternberger will step up at TE.

[Packerraymond]

59 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

The three things Rodgers needs to do in order to have a good game:

1. Pass to running backs early and often.  This forces teams to account for them.  Look at all the games we've played well and Jones/Williams were targeted early and often.  Look at all the games we've played poorly and they were hardly targeted at all, and if they were it wasn't until we were practically out of the game.
2. Get rid of the ball quickly.  Rodgers has to get out of the bad habit he developed in 2015. 
3. Throw the ball down the middle of the field. 

I'm 100% convinced these are the three things LaFleur tries his hardest to get Rodgers to do.  Coming off of each loss this year, THOSE are the three things Rodgers did the very next week. 

Yes, I still 100% believe it's Aaron's ego that keeps him from doing these three things. 

*He's a very particular QB, and I absolutely believe that he sees passes to running backs (especially dumpoff passes) as beneath him.  Look at his pass attempt for Vitale yesterday.  Sailed like 57 yards over his head. 
*He literally said sometime after the 2011 season that one of his major tenets is not throwing the football late down the middle.  I think that's changed to never.  As AG asked earlier, what happened to the quick slant?  It showed up a couple times yesterday I think I recall.  Go figure it had to come after a loss. 
*He takes too long because he is always waiting for something deeper.  Anybody who isn't Pugger or the Gate Keeper can see that he hurts this team by not taking what's open to him and instead holding onto the football until it's too late.

Him being able to do these things against a 2 win team is encouraging.  We need him to do them against the Vikings.  The Seahawks.  The Saints...

I agree with everything you say Rodgers needs to do. I disagree entirely that it's his ego that causes him to struggle with it at times.

Rodgers has developed some poor habits that for the most part this year he's done a better job of breaking. The San Francisco game was a mix of a really good football team and full fledged bad habit Aaron. 

Teams are done letting up beat them via RB, they put a DB on them. Chiefs were the last team to roll with the LB in coverage. It's time to find other ways to beat teams knowing that we'll have the benefit of a safety/nickel being put out on our RBs, down the middle is a great way to exploit that.

Holding the ball is just something I've accepted that he'll always do now. I don't see that changing. Best chance of it happening is to get receivers that win routes earlier.

[Sasquatch]

Some good discussion going on in here today.  I'd like to see Rodgers drop back and fire to receivers on their break, as opposed to standing/scurrying around waiting for someone to get wide open.  Timing is everything, and he used to excel at timing routes.  It could be the receivers just aren't breaking at the right time, or, creating enough separation for Rodger's liking.  The whole thing just looks out of synch, and Rodger's mechanics still seem off - throwing off his back foot while falling backwards is not an ideal throwing motion, and only a few QB's ever have even been able to make it work.

Honestly, it's a head-scratcher for me.  His arm still looks strong, even though he sometimes underthrows receivers, because he'll come back a few plays later and float one over someone's head on a deep route.  It's almost like he lacks confidence in himself, which honestly looks to have carried over to the entire team, as evidenced by a really tentative looking group.  The swagger, confidence and tenacity - outside of Z - just seems to be missing.