Ward4HOF Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 6 hours ago, Jimmy Austin said: I seen a mock that had Tampa trading their 1st rounder for Carr. Why do people think this guy is worth that much because he is not. I wouldn't give them a series 2 magikarp for him. In all seriousness I would go no more than a 4th or 5th rounder. The dude is not that good. You mean, the QB that has a higher Passer Rating, YPA, and Completion % over the Definite Top 10 QB talked about over the past 6-7 pages?? How come Luck gets a pass for having a crap roster and coach, but Carr doesn't?? How come Luck gets to use his TWO good seasons out of SIX to justify his greatness, yet Carr doesn't get to use his TWO good seasons out of FOUR to validate his being considered at least 'good'. (These questions aren't directed toward you, per se...just using your statement to quote, is all) It just cracks me up on these forums, how if Luck is bad, it's everyone elses' fault but his, and when he's good, he's carrying an entire team by himself, yet in Wilson's case, it's the exact opposite...he couldn't be good unless his team was good, and if he's bad, it has nothing to do with his crap OL he's had for years. Just using Wilson as an example, but you can plug just about any QB not named Luck, Brady, Rodgers or Brees into that statement above, and it holds true for Luck 'fan-boys'. But going back to Carr, please tell me how bad the Raiders need to be before he gets a benefit of the doubt like Luck gets about 60% of the time., which equates to about how often Luck is just 'average-to-below-average'. Maybe this will work...how about we agree to say that 40% of the time that Andrew Luck plays, he's as good as a top 5 QB, but the other 60% of the time, he's a bottom half of the league QB. That's probably the most accurate way to describe Andrew Luck, anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 3 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said: So think of who would be in the market, if you feel it feasible. Giants? Likely top 3 pick, and I think they'd rather use that on a rookie QB like Herbert or whoever Broncos? Would they be doing that kind of trade within division? Dolphins? Gase might fancy fixing him, but they were pretty high on Tannehill at the start of this season, and I think there's contracting issues there. Last time they traded a first was 2013 to get a bust, so could put them off All of a sudden, there aren't as many QB-needy teams as there were this time last season. I think that's a fair assessment, and eight first round QB's over the last two drafts clouds things up even further. However, I don't think that necessarily invalidates my point. That really goes to just who would be making a trade, regardless of the compensation involved. I could see the Dolphins or the Jaguars taking a first round plunge, and I wouldn't put it past the Giants either, given OBJ's age. We'll see. I don't honestly see Gruden going to move Carr anytime soon. I think Carr will probably even improve this year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said: You mean, the QB that has a higher Passer Rating, YPA, and Completion % over the Definite Top 10 QB talked about over the past 6-7 pages?? How come Luck gets a pass for having a crap roster and coach, but Carr doesn't?? How come Luck gets to use his TWO good seasons out of SIX to justify his greatness, yet Carr doesn't get to use his TWO good seasons out of FOUR to validate his being considered at least 'good'. (These questions aren't directed toward you, per se...just using your statement to quote, is all) It just cracks me up on these forums, how if Luck is bad, it's everyone elses' fault but his, and when he's good, he's carrying an entire team by himself, yet in Wilson's case, it's the exact opposite...he couldn't be good unless his team was good, and if he's bad, it has nothing to do with his crap OL he's had for years. Just using Wilson as an example, but you can plug just about any QB not named Luck, Brady, Rodgers or Brees into that statement above, and it holds true for Luck 'fan-boys'. But going back to Carr, please tell me how bad the Raiders need to be before he gets a benefit of the doubt like Luck gets about 60% of the time., which equates to about how often Luck is just 'average-to-below-average'. Maybe this will work...how about we agree to say that 40% of the time that Andrew Luck plays, he's as good as a top 5 QB, but the other 60% of the time, he's a bottom half of the league QB. That's probably the most accurate way to describe Andrew Luck, anyway... So which is the bad Andrew Luck season; 2013, 2014, or 2016? And his rookie season was damn good for a rookie. 7 game winning drives and 11-5 as a rookie taking over a 2 win team? He also ran for 5 TDs. He's on a pace for 4750 yards 42 TDs (and yes, 21 picks) Would that be a bad season on your planet? 2 out of 6 good seasons? Carr has not been a real NFL QB since he got paid. He plays like a 5 million dollar a year player who needs 20 million dollars of help on his offense. He also tried to spin his 25 million a year greed as being team friendly. Carr gets a FAIL for his pathetic 29 TDs and 21 picks since signing that elite QB deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
game3525 Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Quote You mean, the QB that has a higher Passer Rating, YPA, and Completion % over the Definite Top 10 QB talked about over the past 6-7 pages?? How come Luck gets a pass for having a crap roster and coach, but Carr doesn't?? How come Luck gets to use his TWO good seasons out of SIX to justify his greatness, yet Carr doesn't get to use his TWO good seasons out of FOUR to validate his being considered at least 'good'. (These questions aren't directed toward you, per se...just using your statement to quote, is all) Because I watched both of them play. Luck doesn't need everything around him to be ideal to play at a high level. Carr has never proven that he can do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ward4HOF Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 13 hours ago, SkippyX said: So which is the bad Andrew Luck season; 2013, 2014, or 2016? And his rookie season was damn good for a rookie. 7 game winning drives and 11-5 as a rookie taking over a 2 win team? He also ran for 5 TDs. He's on a pace for 4750 yards 42 TDs (and yes, 21 picks) Would that be a bad season on your planet? 2 out of 6 good seasons? Carr has not been a real NFL QB since he got paid. He plays like a 5 million dollar a year player who needs 20 million dollars of help on his offense. He also tried to spin his 25 million a year greed as being team friendly. Carr gets a FAIL for his pathetic 29 TDs and 21 picks since signing that elite QB deal. If he continues to throw at below 65%, a paltry YPA of 6.2 with a Passer Rating in the 80s??? Yeah, in today's NFL, that would be a mediocre season...and BTW, I didn't say 'Bad' seasons, I said, he only had TWO 'good' seasons...the others were average/mediocre, so be careful putting words in other people mouth in order to make your point, and by adding cute little gifs. I said, when Luck is 'bad', 'it's everyone elses' fault' -- I never said he had Bad seasons, and yes, there IS a difference...I would have said Bad seasons, if that is what I meant. So, you are like many other posters here, who feel jacking up tons of stats automatically makes a player great--it's the 'Drew Brees'-syndrome. Yes, Drew Brees is a good QB, but take away his being in a pass happy offense in a Dome environment for 15 years, and we'd be looking at his legacy a bit differently...just look at his first few years in San Diego as proof--he wasn't getting it done, so they 'upgraded' to Rivers, and the rest is history...but I digress. So, if all it takes is 4750 yds, 42 TDs and 21 INTs to be great, well, then welcome, Matthew Stafford, to greatness! Sorry you haven't been getting your due, but well, your name isn't Andrew Luck, so... ...because I'll take 4446yds, 29 TDs and 10 INTs, with a YPA of 7.9 and Passer Rating of 99.3, over 4750 yds, 42 TDs and 21 INTs, with a YPA of 6.2 and Passer rating of 88.8...EVERY time. Matthew Stafford has as many seasons with Passer ratings over 91 (including this year) than Luck has in the NFL. He also had 3 mediocre seasons, and well, his rookie season was just bad. But, according to YOUR criteria, in 2013, he had a 'Good' season, because he threw for 4650 yds, had 29 TDs, and 19 INTs...or is 29 TDs not enough to be good? I assume it is, since you feel 2016 was a good season for Luck, and he threw 31 TDs. IDK. Oh, but wait...he didn't even get to the playoffs in one of his best statistical seasons...so...shouldn't we be really re-evaluating how much impact Luck REALLY had on getting the Colts to the Playoffs/Division Titles those first few seasons in his career??? I mean, we all know how great the mighty Titans and Texans were that 2016 season...it was a really tough year in the division that year with 2 x 9-7 teams, and the Colts being 8-8 (and of course, the Jags and their 3-13 record). So, if Luck was SOOOO good that year, how come he couldn't get the Colts over .500? Huh...and yes, we all know about his shoulder injury, but obviously, it didn't affect his play. But let's roll with this other side of the argument that I always hear, anyway..."Luck took his team to the Playoffs and Division Titles...blah, blah, blah"...OK, well, then let's welcome Andy Dalton to greatness as well! But he did it in an actual 'challenging' division. Or how about Alex Smith?? Bottom line--until Luck actually starts PLAYING like the #1 Overall Pick, who was destined to be the next coming of Payton Manning's success in John Elway's 'body', he's destined to be nothing more than 'pretty good'. What he's actually turning out to be, is closer to an Eli Manning without the SB wins. Maybe he'll get those too, some day, but he's inconsistent--season to season--just like Eli Manning is/was. I'm sorry--there is no 'winning' this debate with Luck--he can pass all the 'eye-tests' you want to claim, but until he learns to control his game, and truly develop his talents/gifts, he will never be more than a 'pretty good QB who disappointed as a #1 Overall Pick'--because that is what he is right now. Doesn't meant that can't change...he's still fairly young, (in QB years, where the new retirement age, apparently, is 42ish) and has time to turn this thing around, and become 'great'. I never said he didn't have the tools to become great; I'm just saying, as it stands right now, he is not a great QB...not yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ward4HOF Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 11 hours ago, game3525 said: Because I watched both of them play. Luck doesn't need everything around him to be ideal to play at a high level. Carr has never proven that he can do that. Really?? He doesn't?? Then please explain to me why he simply fails to play at a high level 60% of the time. He had a future HOF WRs at his disposal from 2012-2014, and another one in 2015 (yes, I know, he was at the end of his career, but he wasn't expected to be their #1). He had his security 'banky' in Fleener for his first 4 years in the league. He had great dual-threat RB in Frank Gore in 2015/2016. He's had TY Hilton since coming into the league as well (and please, somebody come back with telling me that TY Hilton isn't a good WR...he was a top 5-7 WR between 2014-2016...easy.) He had a very nice, young WR in Moncrief from '14-'16 (7 TDs in 9 games? ) But no...he doesn't need to be surrounded with talent to play at a high level...I forgot...HE'S the great one...everyone else just hopes they deserve to breathe the same air he does when in the same room, right? So, If Luck doesn't need everything around him to be ideal, when he plays...yet is provided a pretty darn good support staff, then again, why can't he play great more than 40% of the time?? You act like he's infallible, and is some great QB...ummm...he's not, and the evidence is plain as day. Why is he currently 2nd in the league with the most INTs, tied with Carr? Why does he have the lowest YPA of any Veteran starting QB in the league?? Is that 'playing at a high level'? Are the Colts en route to another Division Title under Luck's 'leadership'? And when did Carr EVER have everything 'around him' being ideal? I'm taking Gore over Latavius Murray, Hilton over Cooper (yes, really--at worst, they are equal--don;t care about draft positions, or what they are/were 'supposed' to be, it's what they've done), and Wayne over Crabtree...oh, and Cook just arrive in 2017...now on his 4th team. Just ask any Rams fan abot how wonderful the 'Part-time' player Jared Cook is... So, because Andrew Luck passes some highly subjective 'eye-test'...SOME of the time...makes him a great QB?? But Gruden comes in, guts the team, and Carr struggles a little, and it's all Carr's fault?? C'mon, really?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 I quoted you using words from you but I am putting words in your mouth. Explain to me how 7 game winning drives as a rookie and getting to 11 wins without great passing stats is jacking up stats. Here's another cute little gif The opinion that Luck has ONLY HAD 2 GOOD SEASONS is extremely flawed on every level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted October 21, 2018 Author Share Posted October 21, 2018 Come on NFC East.. over pay for our players! If we can get a 2nd from Cowboys for Cooper and a 2nd from Giants (since it’ll be Top 3) for Carr, both would be steals for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAConrad Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Lol @Ward4HOF looking like a deranged chick bashing their ex boyfriend (Luck) because he broke up with her. It's hilarious how worked up you got. Rambling like a nutjob about Luck when it had nothing to do with what anyone had said about Carr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelonebillsfan Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Nobody could watch the *** whipping the Bills received today and think they'll win another game this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apparition Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 51 minutes ago, Thelonebillsfan said: Nobody could watch the *** whipping the Bills received today and think they'll win another game this year. Science is at a loss to explain what happened in week 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 I nominate Jason Garrett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 After trading Cooper and Lynch to the IR, it really isn't close anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 1 minute ago, RaidersAreOne said: After trading Cooper and Lynch to the IR, it really isn't close anymore. We will find out soon. You guys may be awful, but the 49ers can make even awful teams better than they are by giving them 5 turnovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodo Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Giants/Raiders/Niners fans hoping their teams give away wins like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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