Extend Mike McCarthy?

[incognito_man]

Trying to say that MM was playing for overtime based on one play is silly take-away IMO.

It ignores a dozen variables and includes only one. No worthwhile info can be taken from it.

For example, what if the run got 3 yards? Well then we'd have to guess at what SF does. If they call a TO, does MM get aggressive on 2nd down? (Almost certainly). If SF doesn't does MM let the clock run down to 10 seconds and run again? Or does he let it run to 35 and take a shot downfield? You nor I have any idea.

So there's like a half dozen variables right there, that all fell out of an assumed 3rd gain.

Now what happens if it's for -2? Or 7? Or, coincidentally, 14?

MM made a smart, calculated call that would force the opponent into a decision, or greatly improved odds of success and change the outlook.

Why do people think an obviously brilliant human like MM can't factor more than one variable when even a random guy like me on the internet can in the span of 6 seconds?

[incognito_man]

I mean c'mon...

MM is a guy with a football dataset and paper-binder collection so extensive that it would cause @AlexGreen#20's nethers to get more paper-cuts than a mail-clerk with Parkinson's.

He takes anything any of us has thought up on here into the zeroeth level of inputs in his pre-game calcs ?

[Leader]

 

[Norm]

34 minutes ago, Golfman said:

Trust me you are plenty dense! Love to see us win the Super Bowl but it is not happening with McCarthy. As for Crosby, I'll be pulling for him every week. The stats bare out he's an average NFL kicker. Love to see a draft pick and some competition for him next year. I'm sure in your world that isn't allowed. 

Let me ask you a few questions.

1. Is the NFL a league driven by elite QB's? Yes or No! 

2. If the answer to question 1 is Yes, then how does that skew McCarthy's win/loss record to say, Marvin Lewis or Mike Tomlin. Actually every coach who hasn't had the luxury of having a HOF QB starting his entire career. Should we look at his record when the HOF QB's were not behind center to get a better 'appreciation' for his coaching ability.

Hoody's one year without Brady in NE he went, I believe it was 11 - 5 with a guy who turned out to be useless. 

You can defend McCarthy all you want. The facts don't add up for you brother! 

They won 7 fewer games than the year before.

And I said I wanted Mac to go after this year.

And no I don't believe QBs directly translate to wins. All I heard for years was Ted screwed this roster over and didn't help Aaron. Now we moved on because he's gone to the next remaining thing and nobody cares they thought the roster sucked for years.

It's whatever. You'll all ***** as much about every coach we get as long as we don't win it all and even if we do, the grace periods aren't long.

If that makes me dense, okay. I'm cool with that.

[Norm]

I know this is impossible to understand for some people. But you can dislike something or want it to change but still defend certain aspects. I defended Dom on things years after I wanted him gone because sometimes he deserved it. When people say stupid things I disagree with, I'll disagree. It doesn't mean I am of 100% opposite of the view

[Nick_gb]

5 minutes ago, Norm said:

I know this is impossible to understand for some people. But you can dislike something or want it to change but still defend certain aspects. I defended Dom on things years after I wanted him gone because sometimes he deserved it. When people say stupid things I disagree with, I'll disagree. It doesn't mean I am of 100% opposite of the view

I actually just got done saying that I want to Win championships and not games. However, I've been a strong supporter of both Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy over the years and I think I've allowed them more then enough time to try and prove doubters wrong. I know it's awfully hard to win in this league especially a championship. However, I don't necessarily agree with ousting Ted Thompson but keeping around Mike McCarthy. They both failed at their jobs and should have done better. It wasn't just Ted and Dom. 

[Cheech]

5 minutes ago, Norm said:

I know this is impossible to understand for some people. But you can dislike something or want it to change but still defend certain aspects. I defended Dom on things years after I wanted him gone because sometimes he deserved it. When people say stupid things I disagree with, I'll disagree. It doesn't mean I am of 100% opposite of the view

This is not allowed in America.  There shall be no nuance in any discussion.

[Norm]

10 minutes ago, Cheech said:

This is not allowed in America.  There shall be no nuance in any discussion.

So ******* sad how true this is. It's damn near illegal it feels like. It's my thing. It has nothing to do with sports, it's in everything, everywhere. It's a rant I go on pretty consistently when at the watering holes and sadly I just piss people off, even though I'm right.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

4 hours ago, Golfman said:

Trust me you are plenty dense! Love to see us win the Super Bowl but it is not happening with McCarthy. As for Crosby, I'll be pulling for him every week. The stats bare out he's an average NFL kicker. Love to see a draft pick and some competition for him next year. I'm sure in your world that isn't allowed. 

Let me ask you a few questions.

1. Is the NFL a league driven by elite QB's? Yes or No! 

2. If the answer to question 1 is Yes, then how does that skew McCarthy's win/loss record to say, Marvin Lewis or Mike Tomlin. Actually every coach who hasn't had the luxury of having a HOF QB starting his entire career. Should we look at his record when the HOF QB's were not behind center to get a better 'appreciation' for his coaching ability.

Hoody's one year without Brady in NE he went, I believe it was 11 - 5 with a guy who turned out to be useless. 

You can defend McCarthy all you want. The facts don't add up for you brother! 

Golf, I love you as a poster who just puts it out there, but I gotta say you lost me on this one.

Marvin Lewis?  His won loss record is 124-113- 3, and 0-7 in the playoffs.  He's won 44 of 92 challenges by the way.  MM is 124-72-2.  10-8 in the playoffs. I am not getting your point.

With Tomlin, a lot of people feel Rothlisberger will be a first ballot HOF QB as well.  https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/from-brady-to-brees-10-active-players-who-will-become-first-ballot-hall-of-famers/

Tomlin's record is 119-62-1, 8-7 in the playoffs.

 

McCarthy's got his issues.  Replacing him will depend on whether they can find someone better.   That is going to be dependent on who is available.

 

[Golfman]

45 minutes ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

Golf, I love you as a poster who just puts it out there, but I gotta say you lost me on this one.

Marvin Lewis?  His won loss record is 124-113- 3, and 0-7 in the playoffs.  He's won 44 of 92 challenges by the way.  MM is 124-72-2.  10-8 in the playoffs. I am not getting your point.

With Tomlin, a lot of people feel Rothlisberger will be a first ballot HOF QB as well.  https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/from-brady-to-brees-10-active-players-who-will-become-first-ballot-hall-of-famers/

Tomlin's record is 199-62-1, 8-7 in the playoffs.

 

McCarthy's got his issues.  Replacing him will depend on whether they can find someone better.   That is going to be dependent on who is available.

 

I'm not actually a fan of either of them. I agree Rothlisberger is going to the HOF. He's got 2 rings. Lewis has a winning record with ****ty QB's. I don't think McCarthy would have a winning record with the QB's Lewis has had under center. 

Look, McCarthy won a Super Bowl, good for him and us. I don't think he's a great coach. I don't think he's adapted to the changing game, especially offensively and he's supposed to be the guru. 

People are entitled to other opinions and I can respect it, I just don't agree with it. I also understand we could get a new coach and that coach could be the second coming of Ray Rhodes or Mike Sherman. It could happen. I'd roll the dice knowing, IN MY OPINION, McCarthy isn't the guy to get us back to the promised land. 

Hope I can eat crow in February about him and Crosby. 

[Sasquatch]

10 minutes ago, Golfman said:

I'm not actually a fan of either of them. I agree Rothlisberger is going to the HOF. He's got 2 rings. Lewis has a winning record with ****ty QB's. I don't think McCarthy would have a winning record with the QB's Lewis has had under center. 

Look, McCarthy won a Super Bowl, good for him and us. I don't think he's a great coach. I don't think he's adapted to the changing game, especially offensively and he's supposed to be the guru. 

People are entitled to other opinions and I can respect it, I just don't agree with it. I also understand we could get a new coach and that coach could be the second coming of Ray Rhodes or Mike Sherman. It could happen. I'd roll the dice knowing, IN MY OPINION, McCarthy isn't the guy to get us back to the promised land. 

Hope I can eat crow in February about him and Crosby. 

I see some things I agree with here, and I also see others points.  What I’m most curious about, is this:  if Mac was good enough to get us to the promised land once - and win - what’s changed in that time that leads folks to think he can’t do it again?  If it’s because he had more talent to work with in 2010, well, then that’s not on Mac.  So taking the talent issue of the plate, what is it then?  Has the game really passed him by in just 8 years?

[SpeightTheVillain]

46 minutes ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

 

Marvin Lewis?  His won loss record is 124-113- 3, and 0-7 in the playoffs.  He's won 44 of 92 challenges by the way.  MM is 124-72-2.  10-8 in the playoffs. I am not getting your point.

Tomlin's record is 199-62-1, 8-7 in the playoffs.

 

. 

Active Coaches with 10+ years of head-coaching experience (excluding Belicheck):

Harbaugh - .591 - 1 SB, 1 AFC Title,  2 AFCN Titles, 6 Playoff Berths in 10 years

Payton - .600 - 1 SB, 1 NFC Title, 4 NFCS Titles, 6 Playoff Berths in 12 years

Tomlin - .653 - 1 SB, 2 AFC Title, 6 AFCN Titles, 8 Playoff Berths in 11 years

Lewis - .527 - 0 SB, 0 AFC Title, 4 AFCN Titles, 7 Playoff Berths in 15 years

Coaches All-Time with 10+ years of head-coaching experience:

Gruden - .527 - 1 SB, 1 NFC Title. 5 Div. Titles, 5 Playoff Berths in 10 years

Holmgren - .592 - 1 SB, 3 NFC Title, 8 Div. Titles, 11 Playoff Berths in 17 years

Walsh - .609 - 3 SB, 3 NFC Title, 6 Div. Titles, 7 Playoff Berths in 10 years

Shula - .677 - 3 SB, 5 AFC Title, 16 Div. Titles, 18 Playoff Berths in 33 years

Levy - .561 - 0 SB, 4 AFC Title, 6 Div. Titles, 8 Playoff Berths in 17 years

Cowher - .623 - 1 SB, 2 AFC Title, 8 Div. Titles, 10 Playoff Berths in 15 years

Dungy - .668 - 1 SB, 1 AFC Title, 6 Div. Titles, 11 Playoff Berths in 13 years

Parcells - .569 - 2 SB, 3 Conf. Titles, 5 Div. Titles, 10 Playoff Berths in 19 years

 

 

McCarthy - .631 - 1 SB, 1 NFC Title, 6 Div. Titles, 9 Playoff Berths in 13 years

Takeaways:

1. Mac has an argument for being easily in the Top 5 or 10 coaches of all-time. He is clearly more productive than the majority of this list, although I am sure I neglected some great coaches in the Super Bowl Era.

2. Mac has a better win percentage than everyone on this list save for Tomlin, Shula, and Dungy.

3. Removing Belicheck shows how normal HOF caliber coaches are viewed. 

4. Coaches that win multiple super bowls are few and far between. Even pre-salary cap era. The guys on this list, save for Walsh, with multiple SB titles, coached for a lot longer than Mac has.

4. Shula is ****** impressive.  

 

 

 

 

[skibrett15]

7 hours ago, SSG said:

I watched the game and heard Rodgers comments immediately after the game.  I don't care about the intent after the first play.  IMO the intent when that drive started was overtime and it CHANGED after Monty's big gainer in which he stopped the clock on.  Like I said earlier, I'll have to rematch Rodgers comments because at the time I thought he pretty clearly stated that they were playing for OT and that Monty changed that. 

Yes this is how i interpreted it as well.  The intent was to run the ball and make SF call TO since they had 3.  If they could get a 1st down and gain yardage on the run, AND go OB, then they would have a chance to re-assess.

Usually that tactic doesn't pan out how it did.

[PACKRULE]

7 hours ago, SSG said:

I watched the game and heard Rodgers comments immediately after the game.  I don't care about the intent after the first play.  IMO the intent when that drive started was overtime and it CHANGED after Monty's big gainer in which he stopped the clock on.  Like I said earlier, I'll have to rematch Rodgers comments because at the time I thought he pretty clearly stated that they were playing for OT and that Monty changed that. 

So the only point is that the drive started with a conservative run play to see what would happen from there. Most coaches do that in that situation and field position. If you’ve watched football long enough it’s pretty standard. Call it whatever you want. The AR comments after the game were nothing wow he just finished a huge comeback and your taking his comments to some serious depth. Have seen that type of drive from many coaches on many teams many times. 

[skibrett15]

3 minutes ago, PACKRULE said:

So the only point is that the drive started with a conservative run play to see what would happen from there. Most coaches do that in that situation and field position. If you’ve watched football long enough it’s pretty standard. Call it whatever you want. The AR comments after the game were nothing wow he just finished a huge comeback and your taking his comments to some serious depth. Have seen that type of drive from many coaches on many teams many times. 

seems like you agree then