Is Aaron Donald already a HOFer?

[game3525]

2 hours ago, Forge said:

I want to see the source on that. Not saying it's not true, but LIS in the post above, Watt's 2012 and 2014 are really, really hard to beat and that's not including some other previous amazing seasons that others have had (reggie white 21 sacks in a strike shortened season, for example...where we unfortunately don't have additional data such as TFL and like) 

Yeah, on top of Watt's 2012 and 2014. You have guys like 2009 Revis, 1986 LT,  1987 Reggie White as you mentioned, 2000 Ray Lewis. There have been a ton of great defensive players who put up some otherworldly seasons.  

[El Ramster]

7 minutes ago, game3525 said:

Yeah, on top of Watt's 2012 and 2014. You have guys like 2009 Revis, 1986 LT,  1987 Reggie White as you mentioned, 2000 Ray Lewis. There have been a ton of great defensive players who put up some otherworldly seasons.  

No one should ever place Revis among the greats. Dude was allowed to get away with murder. Like tackle WRs on their routes. 

 

 

[I <3 Faulk]

4 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

@I <3 Faulk To be honest, I think he is 15, yeah.

Yeah, I came to that conclusion as well. Decided that I have better things to do than to demean a child. 

[footbull3196]

21 hours ago, NFLExpert49 said:

Aaron Donald isn't Sapp/Randle, he's the Lawrence Taylor of DTs.

He dominates in all facets of the game. 

Taylor wasn't a Hall of Famer after 5 seasons or even close to it

But you make stupid threads and think you know everything about football and that you're better than other football fans so there's no point in debating you because you'll just make extremely opinionated statements with no real evidence to back them up that you claim as facts

[ET80]

8 hours ago, jrry32 said:

I guess we'll see how he finishes this year. He already has 8 sacks in 7 games. If he finishes the year with 15-20 sacks and again leading the NFL in overall pressure as a 3T, it would be hard to minimize the significance of that.

If Watt's 2014 season was just about sacks, I'd be willing to listen. TFLs, forced fumbles, passes defended, interceptions, TD receptions at TE - Watt was MUCH more than a pass rusher that year.

15-20 sacks isn't going to cut it.

[jrry32]

3 minutes ago, ET80 said:

If Watt's 2014 season was just about sacks, I'd be willing to listen. TFLs, forced fumbles, passes defended, interceptions, TD receptions at TE - Watt was MUCH more than a pass rusher that year.

15-20 sacks isn't going to cut it.

Donald didn't win DPOY last year because he's only about sacks. I don't think I need to explain how dominant Donald is in all facets of the game.

[Nex_Gen]

Is he a HOF'er right now?  Not sure. Do I have any doubt he will be one day? Not a single ounce...

[43M]

35 minutes ago, footbull3196 said:

Taylor wasn't a Hall of Famer after 5 seasons or even close to it

But you make stupid threads and think you know everything about football and that you're better than other football fans so there's no point in debating you because you'll just make extremely opinionated statements with no real evidence to back them up that you claim as facts

Spot on.

However, I will say, at the very least, this is a legit question.    There isnt a DEFINITIVE answer as of right now, but I think Donald has an argument, at the very least.

 

[ET80]

27 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Donald didn't win DPOY last year because he's only about sacks. I don't think I need to explain how dominant Donald is in all facets of the game.

This might be the case, but I feel the need to remind you of how dominant JJ Watt's 2014 season was:

- 20.5 sacks (or, nearly double of Aaron Donald career high in sacks).

- 29 TFLs (7 more than Donald's career high).

- 5 Fumble Recoveries for 59 yards and 1 TD (two more FR and 19 more yards than Donald's CAREER to date).

- 10 Passes Defended (Equal to Donald's CAREER to date).

- 1 INT for 80 yards and a TD.

Donald could produce his usual season output, double his season sack output... and he'd still be behind Watt's 2014.

(I'll not mention the offensive output that year, outside of this line reminding you he scored three TDs as a TE in 2014).

[43M]

4 minutes ago, ET80 said:

This might be the case, but I feel the need to remind you of how dominant JJ Watt's 2014 season was:

- 20.5 sacks (or, nearly double of Aaron Donald career high in sacks).

- 29 TFLs (7 more than Donald's career high).

- 5 Fumble Recoveries for 59 yards and 1 TD (two more FR and 19 more yards than Donald's CAREER to date).

- 10 Passes Defended (Equal to Donald's career to date).

- 1 INT for 80 yards and a TD.

Donald could produce his usual season output, double his season sack output... and he'd still be behind Watt's 2014.

(I'll not mention the offensive output that year, outside of this line reminding you he scored three TDs as a TE in 2014).

That was the most dominant season Ive ever seen from a player....offense or defense.    Even though I wasnt alive when he played, the highlights of Jim Brown were the closest I could equate it to...truly a man among boys.

And beyond the stats you posted, he was always putting pressure on the QB.   Im surprised he only had 10 PD's, too.   Seem liked he swatted at least 2 or 3 every game of his I watched.

Donald is insanely good too and very well might have a better overall career if only because of health....but Ive never seen anyone individually dominate the way Watt did for that 2-3 year span.  

[ILoveTheVikings]

On 10/25/2018 at 5:12 PM, KellChippy said:

Ah, so this is your shtick.

Remember the good old days when Ladanian Tomlinson was overrated because he might get injured?

[jrry32]

6 minutes ago, ET80 said:

This might be the case, but I feel the need to remind you of how dominant JJ Watt's 2014 season was:

- 20.5 sacks (or, nearly double of Aaron Donald career high in sacks).

- 29 TFLs (7 more than Donald's career high).

- 5 Fumble Recoveries for 59 yards and 1 TD (two more FR and 19 more yards than Donald's CAREER to date).

- 10 Passes Defended (Equal to Donald's CAREER to date).

- 1 INT for 80 yards and a TD.

Donald could produce his usual season output, double his season sack output... and he'd still be behind Watt's 2014.

(I'll not mention the offensive output that year, outside of this line reminding you he scored three TDs as a TE in 2014).

Except we're not talking about Donald's usual season output. And Donald doubling his usual season output would blow Watt's 2014 season away. Simply put, if Donald puts up 15-20 sacks as a 3T with all of the pressure he generates and his typical strong season for TFLs, it will be hard to ignore how significant it is. You're conveniently ignoring that Donald is playing a different position and has to work that much harder for his stats.

[ET80]

19 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Except we're not talking about Donald's usual season output.

Then what are we talking about? You threw out the 15-20 sack number. What sort of other numbers would he have to put up across the stat sheet to equate to Watt's 2014, and what sort of justification would you have for him to reach it outside of him being your guy? 

I mean, Watt LITERALLY reached Donald's career numbers in some capacities that 2014 season. Not just in pass rushing capacities, either. 

19 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

And Donald doubling his usual season output would blow Watt's 2014 season away

So, you're arguing that Donald - a great player we're already talking about as a HoF candidate - would have to be TWICE as good to reach what Watt has already done in a single season.

Let that sink in. Seriously, think about that. Donald - DPOY, All Pro - would have to go 200% of his already fantastic production to get a season that is on par to a season Watt has already had. 

19 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Simply put, if Donald puts up 15-20 sacks as a 3T with all of the pressure he generates and his typical strong season for TFLs, it will be hard to ignore how significant it is

It would still be behind Watt's 2014. That's what I'm trying to get at. I'm waiting for you to refute this with what we know about Donald at hospital absolute best to date. He'd still not match Watt's TFL numbers from that season, he'd still not match Watt's PDs that season, he'd still not match the FRs, the INTs, the TDs. He'd have to shatter his personal best in every single statistical category to reach that.

19 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

You're conveniently ignoring that Donald is playing a different position and has to work that much harder for his stats.

I know that the tie that binds is Wade Phillips. Phillips has been known for decades for getting his best player singled up to make an impact. When he worked with Donald, we saw some career best performances. When he worked with Von Miller, we saw a Super Bowl MVP and All Pro LB. When he worked with Watt, we saw arguably the most dominant defensive performance in NFL history.

[megatechpc]

Absolutely not.  His stats aren't even that eye-watering, which they would need to be to already be a HOFer.  Now, JJ Watt had stats good enough to be considered by his 5th season, but not Donald, not by a long shot.  Donald has never even had more than 11 sacks in a season; meanwhile Watt had TWO 20+ sack seasons (AND a 17.5 sack season) by his 5th year.  So yeah, not a HOFer yet.

[jrry32]

33 minutes ago, ET80 said:

Then what are we talking about? You threw out the 15-20 sack number. What sort of other numbers would he have to put up across the stat sheet to equate to Watt's 2014, and what sort of justification would you have for him to reach it outside of him being your guy? 

I mean, Watt LITERALLY reached Donald's career numbers in some capacities that 2014 season. Not just in pass rushing capacities, either. 

15-20 sacks and 24-28 TFLs along with the sort of per game and snap pressure numbers Donald produced last year would put him in 2014 Watt's class. The "career numbers" you discussed were for fumble recoveries and passes defensed. Neither is a significant stat. Donald will never come close to matching Watt in passes defensed for obvious reasons. Fumble recoveries are a luck-driven stat.

Quote

 

So, you're arguing that Donald - a great player we're already talking about as a HoF candidate - would have to be TWICE as good to reach what Watt has already done in a single season.

Let that sink in. Seriously, think about that. Donald - DPOY, All Pro - would have to go 200% of his already fantastic production to get a season that is on par to a season Watt has already had. 

 

That's not what I'm arguing. If Donald were twice as good, he'd blow Watt out of the water. Feel free to read:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-aaron-donald-is-a-terror-and-pffs-best-pass-rusher

"On average, an NFL interior defender created pressure on 6.8 percent of the plays in which they rushed the passer in 2017. Donald nearly tripled that average with a pressure percentage of 18.8 percent.

On average, 41.7 percent of pressure created by interior defenders this season were either unblocked, pursuit or cleanup pressures – meaning only 58.3 percent of pressures earned by interior defenders this season were a result of them beating an offensive lineman. Donald beat an offensive lineman on 86.8 percent of his pressures, the third-highest rate among interior defenders. Donald’s absurd pressure total isn’t a result of the Rams scheming their pass-rush to free him up; he earned that number by whooping offensive linemen week after week, game after game."

If Donald became twice as good, he'd have a pressure percentage of 37.6%. That would be absolutely absurd.

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It would still be behind Watt's 2014. That's what I'm trying to get at. I'm waiting for you to refute this with what we know about Donald at hospital absolute best to date. He'd still not match Watt's TFL numbers from that season, he'd still not match Watt's PDs that season, he'd still not match the FRs, the INTs, the TDs. He'd have to shatter his personal best in every single statistical category to reach that.

LOL. You can't be serious. If Donald doubled his average TFL season, it would entail 34 to 38 TFLs. Hell, he's currently on pace for 23 TFLs this year despite his slow start. I could not care less about FRs, INTs, and PDs.

Quote

I know that the tie that binds is Wade Phillips. Phillips has been known for decades for getting his best player singled up to make an impact. When he worked with Donald, we saw some career best performances. When he worked with Watt, we saw arguably the most dominant defensive performance in NFL history.

Except that isn't what Phillips is doing this year. He's relying more on four-man rushes than I've seen from him. He's not going out of his way to get Donald singled up. Donald is just whooping whoever is put in front of him. Case in point:

Donald puts up four sacks in that game. On three of the four sacks, we used a four-man rush. The 49ers tried to double him on each of the three plays (the RG was too late on one of them to make a difference). On the fourth play when we blitzed, Donald beat one of the NFL's best Centers, Weston Richburg, with ease. And if you noticed, none of those sacks were scheme sacks. On every single one of those sacks, he beat at least one blocker.

Oh yeah, and his current stat total (as the NFL leader in sacks) doesn't include this sack:

The man ragdolls one of the best LGs in the game. He gets screwed by a personal foul the NFL instructed the refs to stop calling.

Here are two more sacks from this year on four-man rushes:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000967260/Donald-tosses-Cousins-to-ground-for-powerful-sack

Wade really isn't working hard to get Donald single teams this year. That's how freaking amazing Donald is.