oakdb36 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 14 hours ago, NJ Raider said: Coop has eight targets in the first half tonight. How many games has coop not even had that in an entire game with us? He didn’t get consistent looks for his entire career with us. Blame playcalling, blame the oline, but the only constant has been Carr. We’ve been making excuses for him for years. Bottom line is that he is not an elite qb. Other QBs don’t give up on plays so easily. I’ve been holding out hope and have been willing to give him second chances but I have very little faith in him.The only problem is that I’m not sure the answer is available this offseason. Ofc he's not an elite QB. Elite QBs don't lead their team to 1 win in their 5th year in the league. Elite QBs don't have 10 TDs in 9 games. You're elite if you can produce in any situation, Carr can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chali21 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 1 hour ago, oakdb36 said: Ofc he's not an elite QB. Elite QBs don't lead their team to 1 win in their 5th year in the league. Elite QBs don't have 10 TDs in 9 games. You're elite if you can produce in any situation, Carr can't. So who could produce in the offense? Off the top of my head I’d say Wilson and maybe Rodgers. Almost every elite QB has superior weapons and coaching to Carr. Honestly Rodgers is the only elite QB that’s being handicapped by poor talent mediocre coaching and he’s having a weaker season. And unlike Carr he’s got a pro bowl WR in Adams. The only reason i say Wilson is because he carried the Seahawks last season. This offense is stupid devoid of talent. Gruden refuses to coach 2018 football. I’m not saying Carr is elite, he isn’t, but i don’t think you can definitively say you can upgrade the position with the current guys in FA and the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 1 hour ago, oakdb36 said: Ofc he's not an elite QB. Elite QBs don't lead their team to 1 win in their 5th year in the league. Elite QBs don't have 10 TDs in 9 games. You're elite if you can produce in any situation, Carr can't. Anyone using the word “elite” with Carr need to have their head examined. Even 2016 Carr is not elite by any means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chali21 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 2 hours ago, big_palooka said: What is everyone's obsession with "pushing the ball down the field" You do realize that was never Gruden's MO on offense. He runs a very conservative, ball control west coast offense. Which actually doesn't fit Carr's strengths... which is why Gruden is a problem. He's not adapting things to his players. For all the hype coming in about Gruden's offense, it's terrible. He looks out of depth as a play caller. It's passed him by This was my biggest concern when they hired Gruden. It’s a total nostalgia hire. There was nothing to indicate that he’d run a modern offense. There was a lot of talk about nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 23 minutes ago, Chali21 said: This was my biggest concern when they hired Gruden. It’s a total nostalgia hire. There was nothing to indicate that he’d run a modern offense. There was a lot of talk about nothing. I am not defending Carr, Gruden, O-line, etc..., or anyone not named Hurst but Is it possible that part of the reason why the play-calling is so bad is that mentally Carr can not run the offense yet. This is entire thing is a dumpster fire but there are to many moving parts and pieces that play off of each other to see clearly what the issues are. Carr: Throws the ball away on 4th down is a) broken QB b) does not grasp the offense so had to run a bad play c)is frustrated with his players/coaches that he does not care and risking injury would be stupid or d) they are tanking and Gruden told him who cares if we win, if it is not there just play it safe. There are multiple answers for why everyone is doing what they are doing. The only problem I have is not trying to inspire confidence or excepting failure. The vet that is rumored to be retiring I would get in peoples faces and call them out in the locker room setting first. If they did not respond then I would do it for the world to see. If they still did not respond then I would quit. The worst thing that could happen is you get fired and the only explanation you need to give your next team is they quit and you tried numerous times to help change the mindset. Best case scenario is you have enough to retire and are a player that refused to compromise who you were as a player for an easy paycheck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJ Raider Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Gruden’s offense was actually pretty modern for the first month or so. Can’t do much when only your center blocks and you have all this offensive turnover. Ppl like Andy Benoit and Louis Riddick were praising the route concepts earlier in the year. Some questionable short yardage calls but there was a time when we had a top ten offense until we lost cooper, lynch, and our line stopped blocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 3 hours ago, Chali21 said: So who could produce in the offense? Off the top of my head I’d say Wilson and maybe Rodgers. Almost every elite QB has superior weapons and coaching to Carr. Honestly Rodgers is the only elite QB that’s being handicapped by poor talent mediocre coaching and he’s having a weaker season. And unlike Carr he’s got a pro bowl WR in Adams. The only reason i say Wilson is because he carried the Seahawks last season. This offense is stupid devoid of talent. Gruden refuses to coach 2018 football. I’m not saying Carr is elite, he isn’t, but i don’t think you can definitively say you can upgrade the position with the current guys in FA and the draft. Well, i'm not saying we have to move on from Carr. I'm just saying he isn't and won't be one of the few elite QBs in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 I actually though Seth looked ok. He showed a little burst and RAC which we haven't seen from him in recent years. I would release him on his current contract, but would bring him back for cheap next year. I was encouraged by Nick Nelson and Karl Joseph yesterday as well. Joseph can play, even if he's not a premium safety. I thought Nicholas Morrow looked decent as well. We should see what we have in him. Calhoun had a nice sack. Maybe he's turning the corner as a rotational player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chali21 Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 2 hours ago, oakdb36 said: Well, i'm not saying we have to move on from Carr. I'm just saying he isn't and won't be one of the few elite QBs in the league. Elite. This is the problem so many teams have in the NFL. The packers are doing it now with Rodgers and the colts did this with Manning. Teams draft a “franchise” guy and instead of building around him they just expect him to carry the team. Who cares who he has around them the guy is a legend. The best offenses and the best teams put their QBs in positions to succeed wether it’s with personal or it’s scheming to their strengths. Carr has neither of those things, his WRs have all been shipped out in the same year, his offensive line is in shambles. Gruden can’t scheme anymore and it shows on the weekends. Carr isn’t elite, but to be honest who was the last elite player to enter the league? Luck? Wilson? Everyone else in the last few years have all produced because they’ve had good-great coaching. Mahomes-Reid Goff- McVay Wentz-Pederson Watson- O’Brien Trubisky- Nagy I seriously doubt any of those guys would produce with the Raiders. All of them might be more talented than Carr but I’m sure many would fall on their faces in Oakland. And you aren’t going to find an elite QB in every draft, they are rare which is why teams give up so much for them. The draft is a crapshoot, Carr you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 all the Carr bashing is clueless. name a team who has worst playmakers .... Seahawks maybe, but at least they have a first round RB.. we have a guy who was cut by the Bucs.. a team that can't run the ball, let that soak in... Coaching is questionable too, want to have faith in Gruden but who knows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Humble_Beast said: all the Carr bashing is clueless. name a team who has worst playmakers .... Seahawks maybe, but at least they have a first round RB.. we have a guy who was cut by the Bucs.. a team that can't run the ball, let that soak in... Coaching is questionable too, want to have faith in Gruden but who knows... For once Beast I agree with you. Bills and Jets are pretty bad but our team currently has the worst roster in the NFL. I feel we have a QB in Carr to build around. He is only 27 and has shown that he can lead a team and they will follow. He is capable of an MVP type season, we just have to put the places in place for his skillset. Gruden has a plan, let's just hope it's a good one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 18 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: For once Beast I agree with you. Bills and Jets are pretty bad but our team currently has the worst roster in the NFL. I feel we have a QB in Carr to build around. He is only 27 and has shown that he can lead a team and they will follow. He is capable of an MVP type season, we just have to put the places in place for his skillset. Gruden has a plan, let's just hope it's a good one... needs to hit on these picks, be smart in free agency, and develop the youth...that be a start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNBlackFan Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 3 hours ago, Humble_Beast said: all the Carr bashing is clueless. name a team who has worst playmakers .... Seahawks maybe, but at least they have a first round RB.. we have a guy who was cut by the Bucs.. a team that can't run the ball, let that soak in... Coaching is questionable too, want to have faith in Gruden but who knows... So Carr needs an elite oline and now elite playmakers to produce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gannon12 Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 35 minutes ago, SilverNBlackFan said: So Carr needs an elite oline and now elite playmakers to produce. Carr must be ♿️ Then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riceman80 Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Go ahead and replace Carr guys. You're just gonna say that guy sucks too. And any rookie we draft is gonna end up shell shocked with this supporting cast anyway and amount to nothing. As i said before, Carr's like #20 on the list of things that need fixed right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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