This team needs a 2nd round WR/TE/RB or equivalent FA

[Blink]

9 minutes ago, Howler said:

Correct. There is a lot more to WR metrics than catch radius and 40 speed. I'm not sure some of these guys have the intangibles that you expect out of a starting boundary receiver.

They were project type prospects to begin with, and all across the league every year we see some of them just don’t work out.  MVS looks like he could be the real deal at some point, but ESB and Moore IMO haven’t shown anything as of yet to inspire so much confidence with our fan base.

Nothing wrong with being hopeful regarding those two, but to me it seems kind of crazy to think they are sure thing.  It’s a 4th and a 6th round pick, not at all significant enough of an investment to act like we are handcuffed to them.  

[Acrid Josher]

11 hours ago, skibrett15 said:

explain... you're going to go @incognito_man on twitter and hope someone here finds your sneaky trash takes and post them as gospel?

Yeah something like that- trying to get Cunningham's Law to work for me. The film breakdown guys here (including you increasingly over the years even though I wouldn't necessarily have called you that when I first saw you posting here) do a great job - but sometimes it feels like I see just as many or more film breakdowns in response to misleading narratives or takes than I see just posted on their own (I did like the threads AG and you made earlier in the year that more or less stood on their own though I think they might have been motivated in large part to respond to certain widely circulating claims about the offense and AR in general).

[CWood21]

4 hours ago, Blink said:

I legit don’t understand how anyone could think depending on two fifth round and below WRs to progress into starting quality players in one offseason is at all realistic.  MVS has shown some flashes, but ESB and Moore have a combined 17 catches.  Someone explain to me why anyone should expect those two players to be solid contributors next year.  With Cobb likely gone and Allison being so injury plagued I think it’s a death sentence to depend on those rookies to be your #2 and #3.  Even with Adams that’s a bottom of the league type receiving corps and if Adams ever misses time we are laughably bad.

We haven’t invested any significant draft capital at the skill positions since Adams.  I get that Aaron has a monster contract so you want him to perform regardless, but I honestly can’t understand why you wouldn’t want to surround him with top tier talent so he can really shine.

Our fans have a blind spot when it comes to WR.  If this was the CB group or OLB I don’t think anyone would argue throwing fifth round and below darts at the wall to be at all good enough when it comes to addressing an obvious need.  Make no mistake: our fans are the only people around the league that thinks our WR group is ok.

So the solution is to go the exact opposite direction?  When you watch the Packers' offense struggle, we're seeing our WRs get open.  Rodgers is missing throws, and we're going to see an improvement from Year 1 to Year 2.  Are we banking solely on the development of our young WRs?  No, that's why you go and sign a lower-tier FA (Tyrell Williams, JJ Nelson, etc.) and grab another toolsy WR.  You're going into the 2019 season with Adams, MVS, and Allison as your "starting" WRs.  Behind those three, you have whoever comes out of the camp battle of the FA WR, J'Mon Moore, ESB, and whatever draft picks you invest.  And you're still free to invest your picks into other positions early on.  WR is a luxury the Packers simply can't afford given how their team is currently structured IMO.

Looking at the top 10 WRs from the '18 draft in terms of productivity you have: DJ Moore (1st), Calvin Ridley (1st), Courtland Sutton (2nd), Christian Kirk (2nd), Antonio Callaway (4th), MVS (5th), Michael Gallup (3rd), Anthony Miller (2nd), and Tre'Quan Smith.  Going to the '17 draft, you're looking at: JuJu Smith-Schuster (2nd), Cooper Kupp (3rd), Kenny Golloday (3rd), Chris Godwin (3rd), Corey Davis (1st), Dede Westbrook (4th), Zay Jones (3rd), Mike Williams (1st), Taywan Taylor (3rd), and Trent Taylor (5th).  You can find players elsewhere.

At the end of the day, I'm not spending a premium or semi-premium pick on a WR.  IF Aaron Rodgers needs elite weapons, maybe he's not as good as we make him out to be.

[cannondale]

No matter which way I try to slice it, it still comes back to the OL for me. Improvement there touches every aspect of the offense. It's the universal upgrade....and the cheapest.

[pacman5252]

15 hours ago, Scoremore said:

Hard not to argue with this.  I am starting to come around.  We will need help at WR and TE.  Still would rather go after veterans than drafting a rookie.  We don't have the luxury of waiting for a rookie to develop.  Fill needs on O using FA and draft defense.  Strength of the draft is at DT and Edge.  We also have a screaming need for a legit S.  

That’s fair. I personally want us to address the positions you listed too (in particular edge). The main point I’ve been trying to get across is that we are deficient at wr (whether work ethic, skill, experience, talent) and banking on late round picks blossoming is drinking too much kool aide on them. 

[coachbuns]

7 hours ago, CWood21 said:

So the solution is to go the exact opposite direction?  When you watch the Packers' offense struggle, we're seeing our WRs get open.  Rodgers is missing throws, and we're going to see an improvement from Year 1 to Year 2.  Are we banking solely on the development of our young WRs?  No, that's why you go and sign a lower-tier FA (Tyrell Williams, JJ Nelson, etc.) and grab another toolsy WR.  You're going into the 2019 season with Adams, MVS, and Allison as your "starting" WRs.  Behind those three, you have whoever comes out of the camp battle of the FA WR, J'Mon Moore, ESB, and whatever draft picks you invest.  And you're still free to invest your picks into other positions early on.  WR is a luxury the Packers simply can't afford given how their team is currently structured IMO.

Looking at the top 10 WRs from the '18 draft in terms of productivity you have: DJ Moore (1st), Calvin Ridley (1st), Courtland Sutton (2nd), Christian Kirk (2nd), Antonio Callaway (4th), MVS (5th), Michael Gallup (3rd), Anthony Miller (2nd), and Tre'Quan Smith.  Going to the '17 draft, you're looking at: JuJu Smith-Schuster (2nd), Cooper Kupp (3rd), Kenny Golloday (3rd), Chris Godwin (3rd), Corey Davis (1st), Dede Westbrook (4th), Zay Jones (3rd), Mike Williams (1st), Taywan Taylor (3rd), and Trent Taylor (5th).  You can find players elsewhere.

At the end of the day, I'm not spending a premium or semi-premium pick on a WR.  IF Aaron Rodgers needs elite weapons, maybe he's not as good as we make him out to be.

We have enough young receivers on the roster to compete next year  .... sign a mid level free agent or two on reasonable contracts to fill out this team.  Rodgers getting his act together/getting healthy will take care of itself.  We have a lot bigger fish to fry draft wise than WR. 

[JBURGE]

45 minutes ago, coachbuns said:

We have enough young receivers on the roster to compete next year  .... sign a mid level free agent or two on reasonable contracts to fill out this team.  Rodgers getting his act together/getting healthy will take care of itself.  We have a lot bigger fish to fry draft wise than WR. 

I don't know what our system will be next year. If it was Mac's, I would vehemently disagree. It needs playmakers at WR and we can't just count on the rookies being much better next year. Projections are not reality.

Our offense has been humming when we use the run and quick passing game, we even saw it yesterday. If that's what we use going forward, then what we have at WR is enough. 

[Mr. Fussnputz]

8 hours ago, CWood21 said:

So the solution is to go the exact opposite direction?  When you watch the Packers' offense struggle, we're seeing our WRs get open.  Rodgers is missing throws, and we're going to see an improvement from Year 1 to Year 2.  Are we banking solely on the development of our young WRs?  No, that's why you go and sign a lower-tier FA (Tyrell Williams, JJ Nelson, etc.) and grab another toolsy WR.  You're going into the 2019 season with Adams, MVS, and Allison as your "starting" WRs.  Behind those three, you have whoever comes out of the camp battle of the FA WR, J'Mon Moore, ESB, and whatever draft picks you invest.  And you're still free to invest your picks into other positions early on.  WR is a luxury the Packers simply can't afford given how their team is currently structured IMO.

Looking at the top 10 WRs from the '18 draft in terms of productivity you have: DJ Moore (1st), Calvin Ridley (1st), Courtland Sutton (2nd), Christian Kirk (2nd), Antonio Callaway (4th), MVS (5th), Michael Gallup (3rd), Anthony Miller (2nd), and Tre'Quan Smith.  Going to the '17 draft, you're looking at: JuJu Smith-Schuster (2nd), Cooper Kupp (3rd), Kenny Golloday (3rd), Chris Godwin (3rd), Corey Davis (1st), Dede Westbrook (4th), Zay Jones (3rd), Mike Williams (1st), Taywan Taylor (3rd), and Trent Taylor (5th).  You can find players elsewhere.

At the end of the day, I'm not spending a premium or semi-premium pick on a WR.  IF Aaron Rodgers needs elite weapons, maybe he's not as good as we make him out to be.

And maybe you've hit the nail on the head. Post-broken collar bone Aaron does not appear to be the same as pre-broken collar bone Aaron. If that trend continues, and with increasing age, I don't see how it won't, we need to get Aaron as much support as possible, because WE ARE COMMITTED TO HIM FOR A LONG TIME and HE USES A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF CAP SPACE!  Maybe we start by beefing up the O-line and bringing in a monster running back. And then back that up by building an iron wall defense. Investing in WRs with a gimpy-armed QB is a waste of resources. I hope I am wrong about Aaron's throwing arm, but so much time has passed since the injury that, if indeed it is his arm, more time is unlikely to cure the problem.

[Blink]

8 hours ago, CWood21 said:

So the solution is to go the exact opposite direction?  When you watch the Packers' offense struggle, we're seeing our WRs get open.  Rodgers is missing throws, and we're going to see an improvement from Year 1 to Year 2.  Are we banking solely on the development of our young WRs?  No, that's why you go and sign a lower-tier FA (Tyrell Williams, JJ Nelson, etc.) and grab another toolsy WR.  You're going into the 2019 season with Adams, MVS, and Allison as your "starting" WRs.  Behind those three, you have whoever comes out of the camp battle of the FA WR, J'Mon Moore, ESB, and whatever draft picks you invest.  And you're still free to invest your picks into other positions early on.  WR is a luxury the Packers simply can't afford given how their team is currently structured IMO.

Looking at the top 10 WRs from the '18 draft in terms of productivity you have: DJ Moore (1st), Calvin Ridley (1st), Courtland Sutton (2nd), Christian Kirk (2nd), Antonio Callaway (4th), MVS (5th), Michael Gallup (3rd), Anthony Miller (2nd), and Tre'Quan Smith.  Going to the '17 draft, you're looking at: JuJu Smith-Schuster (2nd), Cooper Kupp (3rd), Kenny Golloday (3rd), Chris Godwin (3rd), Corey Davis (1st), Dede Westbrook (4th), Zay Jones (3rd), Mike Williams (1st), Taywan Taylor (3rd), and Trent Taylor (5th).  You can find players elsewhere.

At the end of the day, I'm not spending a premium or semi-premium pick on a WR.  IF Aaron Rodgers needs elite weapons, maybe he's not as good as we make him out to be.

My solution would be to invest more significant draft capital to make things easier on Aaron.  I don’t honestly care if he’s as good as we think he is or not, I just want a functional offense again.

 

Notice how the majority of WRs you listed were selected in the third or above, we have spent only one third at the position since we got Adams.  That’s ignoring the position and it’s showing on the field.

 

MVS has had a few good games but at this point if he’s your #2 then that’s probably one of the worst WR groups in the game. Allison isn’t going to play the entire year due to injuries, that’s almost a certainty.  Moore has literally one catch to his name, and ESB has only 16.  Again I think expecting them to transform into a good unit in offseason is incredibly unlikely.

 

I just don’t understand this thought process of literally never spending a premium pick at WR.  Given how the game is played today it seems absolutely crazy not to want top receiving weapons given how the game is so slanted in their favor.

 

btw you hope they will make a second year jump, this isn’t madden and players aren’t on a linear progression.  For all we know they could both regress or stay the same, all I’m saying is if we keep ignoring the most valuable skill position on offense we will continue to see sub par results.

[{Family Ghost}]

I'd add a #2ish veteran wide receiver in free agency or trade if the price is right .. don't really want to spend a higher draft pick on that position.  I also don't want to count on the rooks to make a big leap next year .. they are more or less project wideouts and it might take them a couple more seasons to fully adapt.  They more than likely will be learning another new scheme next year, which could set them back a slight bit.  Lets see who the next head coach is and then add someone that fits that scheme.  

[Pugger]

17 minutes ago, JBURGE said:

I don't know what our system will be next year. If it was Mac's, I would vehemently disagree. It needs playmakers at WR and we can't just count on the rookies being much better next year. Projections are not reality.

Our offense has been humming when we use the run and quick passing game, we even saw it yesterday. If that's what we use going forward, then what we have at WR is enough. 

Let's hope the next offensive staff will get our QB to buy into the quick passing game.  He has gotten into a bad habit of not taking what the defense gives him.  This is my biggest beef with his play this year.

[JBURGE]

Just now, {Family Ghost} said:

I'd add a #2ish veteran wide receiver in free agency or trade if the price is right .. don't really want to spend a higher draft pick on that position.  I also don't want to count on the rooks to make a big leap next year .. they are more or less project wideouts and it might take them a couple more seasons to fully adapt.  They more than likely will be learning another new scheme next year, which could set them back a slight bit.  Lets see who the next head coach is and then add someone that fits that scheme.  

This is exactly what I am thinking. 

• the rookies are projects, can not count on them making a significant year 2 leap
• WR2 Allison is a jag
• unlikely a draft pick will see significant snaps over Allison and the 2nd year players
• new coach scheme is crucial for what personnel we need. 

There's obviously a reason that Gute went after Allen Robinson with Mac's system

[coachbuns]

43 minutes ago, JBURGE said:

I don't know what our system will be next year. If it was Mac's, I would vehemently disagree. It needs playmakers at WR and we can't just count on the rookies being much better next year. Projections are not reality.

Our offense has been humming when we use the run and quick passing game, we even saw it yesterday. If that's what we use going forward, then what we have at WR is enough. 

It won't be Mac's system ... he's gone as well as most if not all his staff.  That's where bringing in a Golden Tate type player or two will help this team regardless what system is used.

[Slinky]

9 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Rodgers is missing throws, and we're going to see an improvement from Year 1 to Year 2.

And we don't know how many missed throws are on him and how many are on the young WRs (route running).

[{Family Ghost}]

Just now, Slinky said:

And we don't know how many missed throws are on him and how many are on the young WRs (route running).

It's a mix of the two .. they aren't where he expects them to be, but he's been off the mark on a lot of throws this year.  It's been a down year all around for this team.  I can't wait for it to be over and we get a new leader with a new direction.  Once the QB couldn't meet his usual lofty performance the thing sunk like the Titanic.