The greatness of Saquon Barkley

[ET80]

4 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

11 minutes ago, ET80 said:

 

I gave you videos of two sacks. And I recall two more in games I watched. To my knowledge, Gurley hasn't blown a protection in the past two years

Quantify it for me - unless you think stats from last season hold over. (They don't).

I don't know how to say this more plainly, but "to your knowledge" holds no weight. You have a source for stats on pass pro for RBs - share 'em, let's see this gap that's breaking the camel's back for you.

4 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

When teams don't think you can beat them deep, it becomes easier to break off long runs.

Um... it's actually the complete opposite. When you can beat someone deep, you have to keep a S back to answer for that, thereby opening up the field for longer runs. 

4 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

OBJ, Shepard, and Engram aren't any good.

This season, they're not. OBJ coming back from a broken leg, Shepard and Ingram both regressing significantly - so yeah. 

[jrry32]

11 minutes ago, ET80 said:

Quantify it for me - unless you think stats from last season hold over. (They don't).

I don't know how to say this more plainly, but "to your knowledge" holds no weight. You have a source for stats on pass pro for RBs - share 'em, let's see this gap that's breaking the camel's back for you.

I watch every single Rams game. I already gave you a stat showing how great he was in 2017. Now, I'm telling you that I haven't seen him blow a block in 2018 (to my best recollection).

Quote

 

Um... it's actually the complete opposite. When you can beat someone deep, you have to keep a S back to answer for that, thereby opening up the field for longer runs. 

This season, they're not. OBJ coming back from a broken leg, Shepard and Ingram both regressing significantly - so yeah. 

 

Um, no, it's definitely not. When teams fear the deep ball, they keep defenders back, which makes it more difficult to rip off 40+ yard runs. If teams aren't keeping defenders back, you only need a seam to have a chance at breaking a long one. C'mon, dude. I'm not going to even bother with the nuttiness of claiming that OBJ isn't any good.(much less the others)

[Danger]

12 minutes ago, ET80 said:

16 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

When teams don't think you can beat them deep, it becomes easier to break off long runs.

Um... it's actually the complete opposite. When you can beat someone deep, you have to keep a S back to answer for that, thereby opening up the field for longer runs. 

lol

[VanS]

19 hours ago, Danger said:

I know Rookie numbers aren't very indicative of performances long term, but right now if I'm a betting man. Rosen and then Darnold seem like the most likely to be busts from this class of QB's right now. Everyone knows that Allen is a project. Rosen however was the "most pro ready".

I've been impressed with Darnold lately.  He looked really good against the Texans after not looking so good most of the year.   Rosen is playing on a really bad team so its hard to judge him fairly.  I'll wait until next year before saying too much about him.

The only thing I'm confident about with this QB class is that Josh Allen will be the best.  He's as good as any QB I've ever seen from a tool's perspective.  And the intangibles seem to be there.  All he needs is more talent around him and experience.  

[VanS]

19 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

Rex Grossman lacks the basic skills needed to play quarterback in the NFL, and arm strength happens to be one of those skills.

Grossman has a problem completing passes, whether they be deep or short. The quarterback has many inconsistencies that need work.

The former NFC Champion has one of the least powerful arms in the NFL.

 

If that is how you see Baker, watch him a little. Or just read a little I guess.

Josh Allen, Baker Mayfield top QB velocity during combine throwing

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2018/03/08/josh-allen-baker-mayfield-top-qb-velocity-during-combine-throwing-session/

 

Watching is better. He has great zip on his passes. Is accurate everywhere, minus last week for whatever reason. Already is having a much better year than Grossman's best year. Maybe he doesn't get a lot better because he is so good at the things that takes most QBs a while to learn but I'm okay with that, he is already good enough to be considered a long term starter and leader of a team that can win games.

I grew up watching Rex Grossman play in the SEC circa 2001 so I don't need you quoting some random person's opinion on his arm strength.  I know Baker's arm is plenty strong.  That is why I compared him to Rex Grossman.  He had a strong arm as well.   The Rex Grossman comp was giving him credit for having a strong arm. 

With regard to stats, everyone's passing numbers are better now.  Its easier to play the QB position today than ever before.  I wouldn't get too excited about that.  If we're talking stats, Baker probably has better numbers this year than Troy Aikman ever did.  Now think how silly it would be to suggest that makes Baker better or just as good as Aikman because of stats from different eras.

Lets see how his career unfolds.  As of right now I'm sticking with the Rex Grossman comp based on the similarity in measureables and physical tools. 

[SmittyBacall]

I really wish people would stop crapping on Darnold.

[SteelKing728]

7 hours ago, iknowcool said:

So you think a teams evaluation of a QB should be irrelevant and that regardless of how they feel, if they need a QB and there is a QB who is considered a top prospect available to them, they should take them?

I think they made the right move. Build the team before you get the QB and set them up for success.

[Ryan_W]

2 hours ago, ET80 said:

 

2 hours ago, jrry32 said:

When teams don't think you can beat them deep, it becomes easier to break off long runs.

Um... it's actually the complete opposite. When you can beat someone deep, you have to keep a S back to answer for that, thereby opening up the field for longer runs. 

you're both right.

you're collaboratively parsing over what is a long run 10-20 yard; and what is a very long run 20-40 yards

[Small Town Values]

Wrong Theard. 

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, VanS said:

I grew up watching Rex Grossman play in the SEC circa 2001 so I don't need you quoting some random person's opinion on his arm strength.  I know Baker's arm is plenty strong.  That is why I compared him to Rex Grossman.  He had a strong arm as well.   The Rex Grossman comp was giving him credit for having a strong arm. 

With regard to stats, everyone's passing numbers are better now.  Its easier to play the QB position today than ever before.  I wouldn't get too excited about that.  If we're talking stats, Baker probably has better numbers this year than Troy Aikman ever did.  Now think how silly it would be to suggest that makes Baker better or just as good as Aikman because of stats from different eras.

Lets see how his career unfolds.  As of right now I'm sticking with the Rex Grossman comp based on the similarity in measureables and physical tools. 

Grossman started more than 7 games in a season twice in his career, it is a terrible comparison. Baker already has more starts than Grossman had in his first three years. It's a terrible comp because one is a #1 overall pick who is having a great rookie year and the other took a few years to start and was never as good as Mayfield is right now, or even close to it. We're not talking Otto Graham era, we're talking a decade ago.

[Bonanza23]

4 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

I really wish people would stop crapping on Darnold.

You’ll see the older you get the more stupid people get. Assuming you have intelligence. 

Not judging 

[Art_Vandalay]

On 12/21/2018 at 9:45 AM, ET80 said:

To be fair, we've seen Adrian Peterson pull a Christian Ponder-led Vikings team to a 10-6 record and a playoff berth. 

I'm sure there are other examples, but this stands out.

The Vikings also had a great roster outside of QB.

[bigbadbuff23835]

4 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

I really wish people would stop crapping on Darnold.

I don’t particularly understand it tbqh. He was a compared to Favre coming out of school, he’s gonna make plays, he’s gonna take risks. Some of the throws he made against the Bills were absolute dimes. I’m really looking forward to a potential Allen and Darnold rivalry.

[Thomas5737]

4 minutes ago, bigbadbuff23835 said:

I don’t particularly understand it tbqh. He was a compared to Favre coming out of school, he’s gonna make plays, he’s gonna take risks. Some of the throws he made against the Bills were absolute dimes. I’m really looking forward to a potential Allen and Darnold rivalry.

Yeah, Allen. Darnold, Jackson and even Rosen don't look to be ready to be a true QB yet. Darnold has ups and downs. Allen and Jackson are making plays with their legs to keep their teams in games. Rosen was thrown to the wolves. They all need some time to work on things, they are still prospects at this point.

[AkronsWitness]

On 12/21/2018 at 10:51 PM, iknowcool said:

The best left tackle of this generation (Joe Thomas) didn't win a ring, or even start in a playoff game.  DeMarcus Ware didn't win anything.  Antonio Brown hasn't won anything.  Patrick Peterson hasn't won anything.  Rams didn't win with Aaron Donald until their offense started balling out.  There's great players at every position who haven't won anything, it doesn't matter.  

And there's plenty of mid and late round players at other positions balling out.  It's not just RBs and it is a huge misconception that it is.  We just recognize it more with RBs because it's easier to tell when one is playing well due to statistics.  Well 

Well to start, Ware has a Superbowl ring. Second, players like Peterson, Thomas, Mack, Donald, ect all play at positions and at levels only blue Chip prospects play at. You don't find players of their caliber at their positions in the mid-late round often--if ever.. Not nearly as often as productive #1 RBs. 

RB is the only position that consistently puts out good players after the first round. Again, look at Chubb, Conner and Lindsay. Those are 3 of the top RBs in the NFL this year. Your not finding a a DT, EDGE, OT or CB that competes at the level of Donald, Thomas, Peterson or Mack outside of the 1st round. You can however find RBs almost every year that can compete at a high level outside of the 1st round.