VigilantZombie Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 Our game against the Chargers next season is apparently going to be in Mexico City... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilantZombie Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 4 hours ago, August4th said: Well that sucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chieferific Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 6 hours ago, Dcash4 said: I dont think he was as much as you think. Is he the stout -- let me hold the Guard and Center and maybe catch a piece of the fullback while Im at it - guy? No. But his horizontal flow (aka - the new NFL) is tremendous. He is in on more screen, off tackle, and stretch plays that are more and more common in todays NFL than a more formal NT would be. Even then he isnt THAT bad holding his ground. I wouldnt put him at the top of the league, but when you add the rest of what he brings to the table it more than makes up for it. What you give up in stout up the middle running you gain in down line pursuit and then double that with the pass rush. We need to get beyond the idea that a NT is what it was 10 years ago. The NFL is different and Hargrave is a perfect fit for multi-front, horizontal football. We were 6th in per game and 9th in per carry in the NFL against the run. NFL outsiders had our defensive rushing efficiency at 8th in the league. Those stats are not perfect, but we were not some gaping hole of rushing which seems to be the general thought when people think of Hargrave. Hargrave gets to the football and gets after the quarterback and the NFL isnt looking in the rearview mirror for the days of a FB and 3 TEs dive plays. Im not sure why we keep looking back either to defend it. Right, he's good at "Today's" 3-4 NT. I just don't think that is an effective way to play Defense. I don't need my 300+lb NT running horizontally. That is what my LB (should) be for. If he isn't double teamed, I want him to be able to push the pocket. QBs/RBs will be the first to tell you penetration up the middle is the most problematic. If he is double teamed, I want my OLB (Watt) to win a 1-on-1. Also, this allows a free blitzer (Dupree/Williams...etc) with no one to block him unless a TE/RB stays back. Even with a free blitzer, that leaves 6 guys covering 5. If a TE/RB stays in that leaves 6 guys covering 4. Then you have your ILBs/SS covering the Flats and TEs. For these reasons, the 3-4 is NOT a FB and 3 TE Defense. It is the most flexible of all Defenses. Yep it's Old School but it more effective then a penetrating NT imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 14 minutes ago, Chieferific said: Right, he's good at "Today's" 3-4 NT. I just don't think that is an effective way to play Defense I’m confused. Isn’t it....today? Again, why are we trying to play defense against something the league isn’t anymore? 11 personnel was run on 58% of the offensive snaps last year. That’s up from 34% from 10 years ago. Only 2 teams ran the ball on over 50% of their plays. 10 teams passed over 60% of the time. Why would we want to be a traditional 3-4? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 3 hours ago, wwhickok said: Well that sucks Why does that suck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chieferific Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 12 minutes ago, Dcash4 said: I’m confused. Isn’t it....today? Again, why are we trying to play defense against something the league isn’t anymore? 11 personnel was run on 58% of the offensive snaps last year. That’s up from 34% from 10 years ago. Only 2 teams ran the ball on over 50% of their plays. 10 teams passed over 60% of the time. Why would we want to be a traditional 3-4? Sarcasm noted. "Today's" 3-4 doesn't make it better. The fact that the NFL throws more makes the Traditional BETTER imo. If you differ, that's fine. Hargrave does not require a double team. Therefore leaving the OLBs or whomever doubled or the free blitzer occupied. There are what I would call traditional 3-4s left in the NFL. Meaning Fat guys in the middle eating up blockers. Some of which are still playing in the Post Season. New doesn't always mean better. Ask Coke. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilantZombie Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 That's the thing Chief just hit it on the head. I don't have a problem with Hargrave but I have been pounding on the table for several seasons probably anybody will tell you I've been beating a dead horse so to speak that we need a traditional nose tackle and that's not to say that we need to get rid of Hargrave I'm not saying that but Casey Hampton made that front seven I'm sorry but he did we had great linebackers don't get me wrong but our front seven would never have amounted to what it did back when Casey Hampton was here if it were not for Casey Hampton. Does that mean we need a Casey Hampton now to succeed know but I think our run defense would be a heck of a lot better with someone like Casey Hampton and I'm sorry Daniel McCullers is not that guy. I get The Passing trend that this league has become but I would argue that the running game is making a major comeback.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 10 hours ago, wwhickok said: Oh..well in that case there are rumors he will take the asst OL coach in Pittsburgh with him. Steelers may not allow that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ward4HOF Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 On 1/10/2019 at 10:04 AM, FourThreeMafia said: I never particularly liked Ben, so I'm not totally against either trading him or letting him walk after 2019. I know what that might mean, but between his declining play and poor leadership, the writing is on the wall. Will it happen? No, since top QBs are given a lot of slack, but if his nonsense is becoming that much of a distraction, move on. Which in turn will probably lead to the definitive end of Tomlin in Pittsburgh when his contract is up. Blow it up for all I care. Probably isn't far off either way. You've never really given him credit for who he is as a QB, yet easily accept Brees as a Top 4 QB time and again on the GB, etc. Why? You REALLY think Brees could have done, in Pittsburgh, what Ben has done the past 14 years? Have you looked at Brees non-dome statistics?? I have...closely...QB rating of 91, comparable TD/INT ratio (but hmm...Tampa in December, or Cleveland in December...) , 250 YPG vs Bens 260 YPG...and yeah, I get he gets to play at home outside, and Drew "doesn't", but the fact of the matter is, Brees is greatly enhanced by his environment--always has been. Then, let's not forget about 'screen pass Brees'...at least Bell ran routes down field half the time, whereas Brees, the 'Drop-off/YAC' king?? Undeniable, irrefutable facts...just like ANY QB would be better in a dome. Is Drew Brees a great QB?? Yeah...better than Ben?? No. Would NOT have wanted Brees over Ben here the past 14 years...would you...honestly? https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BreeDr00/splits/ https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00/splits/ You used to call Steeler fans 'spoiled' for not appreciating the fact that we had things like Head Coaching consistency, Franchise QB, LeBeau, etc. And now, based upon, what exactly?? You want to dump Ben?? For who?? What QB talent have we brought in in the past 10 years leads you to believe that Ben can be so easily replaced. Brown?? Bell?? Sure. But Ben?? Sorry, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. The first season without Ben, will be Tomlin's first losing season...bank on it (assuming Tomlin is still here...and unless we for another already established top 15 NFL Starting QB...tomlin could eek out an 8-8 record, then, I'm sure). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 29 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said: You've never really given him credit for who he is as a QB.... Completely and utter nonsense. When have I not given him credit as a QB? Because I dont believe he was ever truly elite? If thats you're referring to in regards to me "not giving him credit", then all I can do is laugh. Ive always stated I think Ben is a very good/great QB with occasional flashes of elite level play, but he has also been too careless at crucial times and has always been good for at least 1 completely boneheaded decision almost every game of his career. I said I believe he has a clear argument for top 5 QB of his generation, but was never truly elite IMO. We as Steeler fans are extremely fortunate to have had him as a QB.....Ive never said otherwise. I think Ben is a prima donna and a baby, and for those reasons I never really liked him, but that doesnt mean I havent given him plenty of credit for his on field play. 29 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said: You REALLY think Brees could have done, in Pittsburgh, what Ben has done the past 14 years? Have you looked at Brees non-dome statistics?? I have...closely...QB rating of 91, comparable TD/INT ratio (but hmm...Tampa in December, or Cleveland in December...) , 250 YPG vs Bens 260 YPG...and yeah, I get he gets to play at home outside, and Drew "doesn't", but the fact of the matter is, Brees is greatly enhanced by his environment--always has been. Then, let's not forget about 'screen pass Brees'...at least Bell ran routes down field half the time, whereas Brees, the 'Drop-off/YAC' king?? Undeniable, irrefutable facts...just like ANY QB would be better in a dome. Is Drew Brees a great QB?? Yeah...better than Ben?? No. Would NOT have wanted Brees over Ben here the past 14 years...would you...honestly? Nothing you said proves a thing, despite you acting like youve proven something. Drew Brees is smarter, more accurate and much more likable overall. There are too many speculative variables to consider when comparing QBs. Of course you could make the claim that Brees benefitted greatly from being in a dome....and I woudlnt disagree. However, you cant just look at his stats in outside games and act like that would be how he fared if he was in Pittsburgh. Ben gets to practice and play in the elements regularly....Brees is used to playing in a dome. Now, am I saying that Brees would absolutely be better in Pittsburgh than Ben has been? No. but you also cant say that Ben would be better in a dome than Brees has been. All we can do is speculate on this, and therefore, any assessment is going to be largely opinion based. Bottom line, you can believe whatever you want. If you believe Ben is better than Brees....power to you....but dont act like that opinion is indisputable fact. It's not. 29 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said: You used to call Steeler fans 'spoiled' for not appreciating the fact that we had things like Head Coaching consistency, Franchise QB, LeBeau, etc. And now, based upon, what exactly?? You want to dump Ben?? For who?? What QB talent have we brought in in the past 10 years leads you to believe that Ben can be so easily replaced. Brown?? Bell?? Sure. But Ben?? Sorry, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. The first season without Ben, will be Tomlin's first losing season...bank on it (assuming Tomlin is still here...and unless we for another already established top 15 NFL Starting QB...tomlin could eek out an 8-8 record, then, I'm sure). Im not going to waste time debating you if you're going to use strawmen and claim Ive said things Ive never actually said. You say I dont give him credit when I have, and now you're claiming I said he is easily replaceable? Sorry, neither ever happened, so get your facts straight. The post you quoted was me saying that he is declining and Im tired of his drama, and wouldnt care if we moved on. Ive said the same damn thing about the entire team since all we are doing is spinning tires and it may very well need to happen soon. Ben is PART of the reason we are spinning tires. Do I think he is easily replaceable? Haha....hell no, nor have I ever come close to claiming that. Ive said numerous times the team could very well rescind into a dark age after Ben leaves....because QBs of his caliber are hard to come by....even with his flaws. If you want to call me out for something, so be it, but at least try to call me out without resorting to a false dichotomy and making things up Ive never said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilantZombie Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 Wtf is going on in Pittsburgh? First the only "coach firings" that occur are actually simply 2 expiring contracts that were not renewed, then Butler sees his role get expanded instead of being fired, and now we hire the worst DC in the league statistically, former Bengals DC Teryl Austin as an assistant Secondary Coach.... This organization is just inspiring all kinds of hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Displayname Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, wwhickok said: Wtf is going on in Pittsburgh? First the only "coach firings" that occur are actually simply 2 expiring contracts that were not renewed, then Butler sees his role get expanded instead of being fired, and now we hire the worst DC in the league statistically, former Bengals DC Teryl Austin as an assistant Secondary Coach.... This organization is just inspiring all kinds of hope. Slim pickins as some will call it. Why I dread when tomlin hangs them up or gets fired. Any bets that butler would be new head coach? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilantZombie Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 47 minutes ago, Displayname said: Slim pickins as some will call it. Why I dread when tomlin hangs them up or gets fired. Any bets that butler would be new head coach? I said it before and I will say it again now. I guarantee Butler is not a HC in Pittsburgh. If Tomlin gets fired in the future, no one on his staff will remain. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August4th Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 does tomlin have a coaching tree? not sure if arians counts since he's been coaching sine tomlin was a kid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 1 hour ago, wwhickok said: Wtf is going on in Pittsburgh? First the only "coach firings" that occur are actually simply 2 expiring contracts that were not renewed, then Butler sees his role get expanded instead of being fired, and now we hire the worst DC in the league statistically, former Bengals DC Teryl Austin as an assistant Secondary Coach.... This organization is just inspiring all kinds of hope. Austin is a forgettable hire, but he isnt terrible. He has had success when he has had talent....but he isnt someone who is going to make players overachieve. Bengals were destroyed with injuries this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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