43M Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 18 hours ago, Dcash4 said: I tried, man. I tried to find someone, something - outside of this board who long for the days of Casey Hampton - that agree with you. I googled everything from javon Hargrave awful to Javon Hargrave sucks. I checked reddit, Twitter, even AOL away messages. I came up empty. I only found people praising his play. Talking about how improved he is. How he is an up and coming star. Seeing videos of him whooping people. And I don’t mean to go THAT far, but there must be something...ANYTHING...that you can hang your hat on that confirms your stance. Not just the “and that’s the bottom line because 43 said so”. Statistically, it must be in your favor. Maybe we DO run base defense more than 30% of the time. Maybe the NFL isn’t passing at an all time high rate. You just gotta give me something, man. Enlighten me, educate me, sell me...just anything more than an opinion...if that’s all there is to it. Wait wait wait.....you havent proven a damn thing with actual facts or evidence, yet youre trying to call ME out for not doing so? Good stuff. Sorry, but just because youve looked up people to confirm your opinion isnt evidence. Did I provide evidence? No, but unlike you, I wont act like I have. Ive just watched him and know what I see. If you supposedly see something different, so be it. But stop acting like youve proven anything when you havent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 6 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said: Wait wait wait.....you havent proven a damn thing with actual facts or evidence, yet youre trying to call ME out for not doing so? Good stuff. Sorry, but just because youve looked up people to confirm your opinion isnt evidence. Did I provide evidence? No, but unlike you, I wont act like I have. Ive just watched him and know what I see. If you supposedly see something different, so be it. But stop acting like youve proven anything when you havent. I’ve done my best to provide evidence throughout this discussion. I’m not saying I have the right answer, I won’t definitively do that with my opinion like you. We ended up 8th in defensive efficiency against the run. Top 3rd of the league for something you seem to believe we are awful at. Is that great? No, but it’s also not trash like you seem to think....and it also not a cause of a NT. I’ve provide that we played base 3-4 about 20% of the time. If you would like more, over the last 3 games of the year — we did it for 30 total plays. So how imperative is it to have a NT that can do one thing rather than a flexible NT who is more apt for today’s game? Todays game that involves sub packages...again, as I have shared 11 personnel on 58% of the plays last year. Nearly double from 10 years ago...when a NT people want us to revert to dominated. I started how productive he was...nearly matching both Hargrave and Tuitt while playing significantly less snaps. I’ll add a new one...in the Jags game, which was easily our worst run defensed game where we played a lot of base. With Big dan on the field at NT - 6.1 YPC. That’s not significant because big dan sucks, but when Hargrave came into the game it was 2.4 YPC, which is significant. So I have TRIED to provide any sort of detail. TRIED to provide some form of evidence. I understand the flaws of stats, but at least it’s something. Your welcome to do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, Dcash4 said: I’ve done my best to provide evidence throughout this discussion. Yet you havent provided a shred of actual evidence. Youve provided team stats and the fact that others agree with your opinion. I wouldnt even care if you werent trying to call me out for not doing so. 4 minutes ago, Dcash4 said: I’m not saying I have the right answer, I won’t definitively do that with my opinion like you. Except thats exactly what you did in your previous post...so you're 0 for 2. And I gave my opinion. I never said no one could think otherwise. 4 minutes ago, Dcash4 said: We ended up 8th in defensive efficiency against the run. Top 3rd of the league for something you seem to believe we are awful at. Is that great? No, but it’s also not trash like you seem to think....and it also not a cause of a NT. Sad how you cant even argue points I actually made. Beyond that, Hargrave played less than half the snaps in 2018...so unless youre going to go through each and every snap and break down each play and how Hargrave fared....you dont have any more actual "evidence" than I do. All you provided was a team statistic with zero context to support your argument. 4 minutes ago, Dcash4 said: I’ve provide that we played base 3-4 about 20% of the time. If you would like more, over the last 3 games of the year — we did it for 30 total plays. So how imperative is it to have a NT that can do one thing rather than a flexible NT who is more apt for today’s game? Again, where did I argue that we should have an NT that can only do one thing? 4 minutes ago, Dcash4 said: Todays game that involves sub packages...again, as I have shared 11 personnel on 58% of the plays last year. Nearly double from 10 years ago...when a NT people want us to revert to dominated. I started how productive he was...nearly matching both Hargrave and Tuitt while playing significantly less snaps. I’ll add a new one...in the Jags game, which was easily our worst run defensed game where we played a lot of base. With Big dan on the field at NT - 6.1 YPC. That’s not significant because big dan sucks, but when Hargrave came into the game it was 2.4 YPC, which is significant. So I have TRIED to provide any sort of detail. TRIED to provide some form of evidence. I understand the flaws of stats, but at least it’s something. Your welcome to do the same. The problem is that you keep arguing things I never actually said, and acting like youve provided evidence you actually havent provided. The only thing I said was that, from my perspective, Hargrave isnt a starting caliber NT. Does that mean he is bad? Not by any means. Ive said many times in the past I think he would be a terrific subpackage/rotational player, but there is a reason why he doesnt get more snaps, and thats because he has limitations. He can be an excellent pass rusher and adequate run defender, but he has also been washed out of too many plays and single blocked more easily than I like to see from NTs. Youre acting like Im bashing him when Im not. I dont think he is anywhere close to our biggest issue on defense, and I will say he took a step forward this year....but as of right now, Im not big on him for anything except being a situational player...and there are alot of great situational player in the NFL. Nothing wrong with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 3 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said: The only thing I said was that, from my perspective, Hargrave isnt a starting caliber NT. Does that mean he is bad? Not by any means. Ive said many times in the past I think he would be a terrific subpackage/rotational player, but there is a reason why he doesnt get more snaps, and thats because he has limitations. He can be an excellent pass rusher and adequate run defender, but he has also been washed out of too many plays and single blocked more easily than I like to see from NTs. Youre acting like Im bashing him when Im not. I dont think he is anywhere close to our biggest issue on defense, and I will say he took a step forward this year....but as of right now, Im not big on him for anything except being a situational player...and there are alot of great situational player in the NFL. Nothing wrong with that. Well then 43, I apologize for assuming. I assumed, like some, that your mentioning of NT was just in reference to Hargrave and not the specific, seldom used position. Your mention of him being average at best, that he isn’t starting quality and that’s that, and lumping him in with guys like Dupree and Davis has me thinking you did not think he was quality and were only judging him by the letters put next to his name in the program. I whole heartedly disagree about he reason he doesn’t get more snaps is because of limitations. He doesn’t get more snaps because we are a 3-4 based team that goes to 2 lineman in sub packages, where Tuitt and Heyward still out rank him. From the 9th game on, he averaged well over 50% of the snap...they were finding more ways to use him, even going to a 3-3-5 look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKSteeler Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 They should have found more ways to use him after his rookie year. It's a shame how bad the defense was against NE. Specifically, the coverage. But he wrecked the Pats interior in that game. Then he was in the doghouse or whatever last year and most of this season until he finally got looks with the Tuitt injury. I can't comprehend the refusal to use him more in the nickel or why people view him as a problem. Teams aren't really running on the Steelers when he's in the game. They run on the Steelers sub-packages. Also, just a reminder - the Steelers had two of the 4 teams playing this weekend dead to rights, but Tomlin'ed things away (and actually beat the Pats, though I'm not convinced Belichick didn't just throw that game to save Tomlin's job - joke's on him, there's no accountability for Mike). Teams with byes are also 7-1 the past two seasons. Anyone remember which team had the one loss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted January 14, 2019 Author Share Posted January 14, 2019 https://steelersdepot.com/2019/01/is-keith-butler-actually-being-demoted/ sounds like the are suggesting: -Tomlin HC/DC -Butler LB Coach/Play Caller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muncher Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 hour ago, warfelg said: https://steelersdepot.com/2019/01/is-keith-butler-actually-being-demoted/ sounds like the are suggesting: -Tomlin HC/DC -Butler LB Coach/Play Caller lol................that sounds like a plan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 (edited) Butler was a very good LB coach. But they will need some new ideas if this does not work. Edited January 14, 2019 by jebrick 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muncher Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 hour ago, jebrick said: Butler was a very good LB coach. But they will need some new ideas if this does not work. i dont see how this has any chance to work. tomlin cant handle HC duties, how the heck is he gonna run the defense full time too but have butler call games? yup, that wont be a disaster. 2 dbs coaches? that sure wont clear up out communication issues... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August4th Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFF Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, August4th said: A lateral move to boot...holy dumpster fire Batman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August4th Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 hopefully the Ptt O-line keeping moving with Sarrett in charge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livewire Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Offseason keeps getting better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neumatic Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Welcome to the PIT of Misery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsthomp2007 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 I actually feel bad. Outside of being a Broncos' fan, I generally tend to like the blue collar, cold weather teams, who play outside: Broncos, Steelers, Packers, Bears...however, it seems like since Tebow's 100% passer rating in overtime against the Steelers a few years ago, that we've had your guys' number. I am kind of scared at some point this is all going to come around to haunt us, like pirating your OL coach...sorry to see him leave Pittsburgh, glad Munch is a Bronco now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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