Raiders Defense

[NYRaider]

18 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Don't get me wrong, he's playing good football. But I don't see where he's elevated his game any from last season. He's not making any standout plays, creating turnovers, etc. I had hoped to see him standout more as a defender. 

He only played a third of our snaps against the Chargers and missed the next two games. A shade over a game in a brand new scheme is way too early to judge a player. 

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

He only played a third of our snaps against the Chargers and missed the next two games. A shade over a game in a brand new scheme is way too early to judge a player. 

Seriously? I had thought he had been on the filed. I'll be patient. Maybe he starts making some plays.

[NYRaider]

3 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Seriously? I had thought he had been on the filed. I'll be patient. Maybe he starts making some plays.

Nah he got banged up early against the Chargers, that's why Harmon played so much weeks 2/3, and then came back last week. One thing about Moehrig though, even dating back to last year, he just seems to be a very solid cover guy but not much of a ballhawk or playmaker. Harmon's ball skills are significantly better than any DB we've had for a while and it shows.

[Darbsk]

After reading a number of comments in other threads and thinking about the premise that our defence is actually playing well I got to crunching some numbers as my eyes tell me they are playing OK in patches but not well per se.

Against the Chargers we gave up 24 points. The Chargers average 23.50 points per game and have scores of 24, 24, 10, 34, 30 and 19.

Against the Cardinals we gave up 29 points. The Cardinals average 19.00 points per game and have scores of 21, 29, 12, 26, 17 and 9.

Against the Titans we gave up 24 points. The Titans average 19.20 points per game and have scores of 20, 7, 24, 24 and 21.

Against the Broncos we gave up 23 points. The Broncos average 15.17 points per game and have scores of 16, 16, 11, 23, 9 and 16.

Against the Chiefs we gave up 30 points. The Chiefs average 29.83 points per game and have scores of 44, 27, 17, 41, 30 and 20.

Now, obviously this doesn't take into account special teams points and defensive scores and I didn't work all that out so apologies and it's not fool proof, but the evidence suggests that we are indeed below average against every team we have faced and pretty bad actually when we went against Denver, Tennessee and Arizona. In fact, those three teams had their season-high output against us. 

We haven't been ripped apart in any game and that is a plus, but it seems like the old eye test confirms the stats to me that we have had patches of good defence, have adjusted at times but we are overall below average against every team we face. This might just be good enough if the offence was a real top offence but as we've had growing pains the defence hasn't been good enough to cope and make up for the offence issues. So, for those that say the defence has been good I think it demonstrably hasn't been 'good' but below average. It's not been terrible as some comments in the gameday threads have claimed either IMO. When combined with an underperforming offence we are where we are quite logically.

Looking forward, the offence I would say, has talent sprinkled throughout and should in theory gel better and improve. There are areas like RedZone where we could stand to improve a lot so I do see us getting better overall. With regards to the defence, I don't think it's a case of chemistry like the offence, it looks like a lack of talent basically coupled with things like the infuriating 3 man pass rush on occasion. We can stand to improve a little on playcalling maybe but overall I just don't see a grand improvement being due, simply as we have limited impact playmakers and lack the talent of the offence. Our season is reliant on the offence upping their game and sorting out some of their RedZone issues as I believe the defence is what it is pretty much until we can infuse talent at the next free agency and draft period.

[NCOUGHMAN]

Just thinking our longest tenured player on defense is the dt hank. 

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Just thinking our longest tenured player on defense is the dt hank. 

With exception of a 2 picks (Mack and Crosby) the team has not drafted defense well and this is the result. 

Coaching can only do so much. The completely lack of talent due to the bust rate of the Raiders picks over the last 10 years on defense is ridiculous. 

 

[NCOUGHMAN]

37 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

With exception of a 2 picks (Mack and Crosby) the team has not drafted defense well and this is the result. 

Coaching can only do so much. The completely lack of talent due to the bust rate of the Raiders picks over the last 10 years on defense is ridiculous. 

 

Maxx and morrow were the only drafted defensive players to get a 2nd contract since?? Route

[big_palooka]

I read somewhere while traveling the thought that Graham's defense may be overly complicated. Instead of being able to read and react, players are thinking to much. 

When you see Cle Ferrell in coverage or Chandler Jones dropping in coverage as a LB, it certainly begs the question of are you doing to much?

Not sure what it's going to take, but no coach has been able to crack the defensive issues for the Raiders in 2 generations. Lack of talent is a massive contributor, but things need to be easy for players to do what they do best as well. 

[Styrian Raider]

9 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

I read somewhere while traveling the thought that Graham's defense may be overly complicated. Instead of being able to read and react, players are thinking to much. 

When you see Cle Ferrell in coverage or Chandler Jones dropping in coverage as a LB, it certainly begs the question of are you doing to much?

Not sure what it's going to take, but no coach has been able to crack the defensive issues for the Raiders in 2 generations. Lack of talent is a massive contributor, but things need to be easy for players to do what they do best as well. 

I think "easy" is mit good enough these days. Last year we had Gus Bradley and it didn't worked out that well.

What we really need is continuity and a long term plan. 

[big_palooka]

3 minutes ago, Styrian Raider said:

I think "easy" is mit good enough these days. Last year we had Gus Bradley and it didn't worked out that well.

What we really need is continuity and a long term plan. 

And talent. CB, LB and DT have been an issue for 10+ years. 

[Styrian Raider]

5 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

And talent. CB, LB and DT have been an issue for 10+ years. 

Of course - but I think only top talents can play on the same level with different coaches. But players next in line should be developed/handpicked by the coach to fit the scheme.

But If you change coaches every year, you can't build these depth Players 

[big_palooka]

25 minutes ago, Styrian Raider said:

Of course - but I think only top talents can play on the same level with different coaches. But players next in line should be developed/handpicked by the coach to fit the scheme.

But If you change coaches every year, you can't build these depth Players 

Agree with that. It's why the Pats always seem to have great defenses. And when player leave, they tend to not have the same impact they once did. 

[MrOaktown_56]

I'm not as low on the defensive talent as some. I think the CB group is pretty decent. Safety this year as well. I don't like our LB's in coverage at all and DT is still mediocre. I think getting interior pressure and covering the middle are just things we aren't great at and if we improved there, the rest of the defense would look a ton better. 

[Darbsk]

13 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I'm not as low on the defensive talent as some. I think the CB group is pretty decent. Safety this year as well. I don't like our LB's in coverage at all and DT is still mediocre. I think getting interior pressure and covering the middle are just things we aren't great at and if we improved there, the rest of the defense would look a ton better. 

I think we are pretty much where we rank in terms of talent. Compared to league averages of teams we’ve played we seem to be slightly below average. We have a very good edge and one who is good. We have a couple good run stopping DTs but no real penetration. We have a good MLB who is better against the run than pass. We have a few decent but not great CBS, Hobbs might actually be very good but he’s now on IR. Safety is solid without being spectacular with Abram good in the run and poor in the pass and Moehrig pretty good all round without ascending to Pro Bowl level yet. 
 

I feel we only really have two difference makers on defence. Crosby and Hobbs but maybe Jones will come good as he settles. We have a lot of average to decent players filling in all over though and that is kind of the character, average without making a lot of big plays. 

[RaidersAreOne]