dll2000 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Jroc04 said: Anything Dak related is serious biz. Get with it. Apologies. Dak is GOAT and spends his off time feeding orphans and petting puppies. Birds land on his arms and start to sing if he spreads them. The sleep in his eye may contain medicinal properties and his urine is potable. I have stats and analysis to back all this up if you need it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmen Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: LOL - I just realized there are 2 colors on that. It also shows Wentz is a checkdown king. I think you're misreading that Matts. I wouldn't classify either as checkdown QBs. The size of the bubbles is pass attempts at a given air_yard. Wentz has fewer pass attempts in general due to his missed games from injury. Dak looks like a better intermediate passer, and they're both average passers beyond 20 yards Russell Wilson's graph is truly a thing of beauty, especially beyond 20 yards Edited June 17, 2020 by Gmen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, dll2000 said: Apologies. Dak is GOAT and spends his off time feeding orphans and petting puppies. Birds land on his arms and start to sing if he spreads them. The sleep in his eye may contain medicinal properties and his urine is potable. I have stats and analysis to back all this up if you need it. Dont forget that he has been the lowest paid starting QB in the NFL the last 4 years and just gave a bigger check than any other player or team (that I have seen) to fight social injustice. Mines true by the way. 4 minutes ago, Gmen said: I think you're misreading that Matts. I wouldn't classify either as checkdown QBs. The size of the bubbles is pass attempts at a given air_yard. Wentz has fewer pass attempts in general due to his missed games from injury. Dak looks like a better intermediate passer, and they're both average passers beyond 20 yards Russell Wilson's graph is truly a thing of beauty, especially beyond 20 yards I guess I just saw all those green circles right around 0 yards. Especially that one that was hugely negative. One caveat I will add. Dak said that under linehan he had never practiced throwing deep for his first 3 years. Under Moore Dak was rated very highly in deepball throws. When asked what changed, he said "we finally started practicing it". Coaching matters a lot. Garrett should be able to get Jones to be a very good 5-15 yard thrower if he isnt already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Matts4313 said: LOL - I just realized there are 2 colors on that. It also shows Wentz is a checkdown king. Except you're going to ignore the stat that I @'ed you with showing that in the last two seasons, Carson Wentz has the 6th lowest checkdown percentage in the league, despite having no deep threats, and throwing to practice squad players for most of last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 20 minutes ago, Danger said: Except you're going to ignore the stat that I @'ed you with showing that in the last two seasons, Carson Wentz has the 6th lowest checkdown percentage in the league, despite having no deep threats, and throwing to practice squad players for most of last season. I responded to you last night. I dont know how they are using checkdowns, what I am saying he throws a crap ton of below 0 yards up to like 8 yard passes to RBs and TEs. That might just be how the offense is designed. So maybe I should say "dump offs" instead of "check downs". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jroc04 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-captain-checkdown-quarterbacks-most-least-rely-checkdown-passes Dak and Wentz are polar opposites when it comes to 3rd down checkdowns. Wentz having the 6th lowest and Dak having the 7th highest percentage. Edited June 18, 2020 by Jroc04 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Jroc04 said: https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-captain-checkdown-quarterbacks-most-least-rely-checkdown-passes Dak and Wentz are polar opposites when it comes to 3rd down checkdowns. Wentz having the 6th lowest and Dak having the 7th highest percentage. Whew lad. Check downs on third are the most acceptable as long as the check down gains a 1st. Dak: converts 1st downs on 3rd down 45% of the time Wentz: converts 1st downs on 3rd down 45% of the time Good thing its not crazy short passes on first and second like Wentz.. Maybe if he was better on early downs he could take the easy stuff on 3rd. EDIT: I just read your article. The difference is 16 throws over 2 years..... Edited June 18, 2020 by Matts4313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jroc04 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 32 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: Whew lad. Check downs on third are the most acceptable as long as the check down gains a 1st. Dak: converts 1st downs on 3rd down 45% of the time Wentz: converts 1st downs on 3rd down 45% of the time Good thing its not crazy short passes on first and second like Wentz.. Maybe if he was better on early downs he could take the easy stuff on 3rd. EDIT: I just read your article. The difference is 16 throws over 2 years..... Dak makes the scared throw and hopes the receiver or back can pick up that first. Seems to me then that Dak relies on players to make the plays for him and Wentz makes the play himself. Carson’s clearly more alpha by the way they play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Jroc04 said: Dak makes the scared throw and hopes the receiver or back can pick up that first. Seems to me then that Dak relies on players to make the plays for him and Wentz makes the play himself. Carson’s clearly more alpha by the way they play. This is literally the most backwards logic thing I have ever heard from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jroc04 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 4 hours ago, Matts4313 said: This is literally the most backwards logic thing I have ever heard from you. Number don’t lie. Guy clearly, more than others, would rather play it safe than press the issue. He needs some confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Biggest drop-offs from first-read grade to non-first-read grade (QBs with 50 or more attempts on each, 2018-19, regular season only) Player Grade on first read throws Grade on non-first-read throws Difference Jared Goff 90.3 47.1 43.2 Ryan Tannehill 79.6 41.9 37.7 Joe Flacco 77.9 43.4 34.5 Dak Prescott 83.9 54.1 29.8 Mitchell Trubisky 65.8 38.5 27.3 Derek Carr 84.5 59.7 24.8 Nick Mullens 72.9 48.5 24.4 Daniel Jones 72.2 48.5 23.7 Philip Rivers 89.3 66.2 23.1 Gardner Minshew 77.0 54.3 22.7 https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-ranking-the-best-quarterbacks-on-first-and-second-read-throws-patrick-mahomes-drew-brees-aaron-rodgers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMossIsBoss Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 1 minute ago, HTTRDynasty said: Biggest drop-offs from first-read grade to non-first-read grade (QBs with 50 or more attempts on each, 2018-19, regular season only) Player Grade on first read throws Grade on non-first-read throws Difference Jared Goff 90.3 47.1 43.2 Ryan Tannehill 79.6 41.9 37.7 Joe Flacco 77.9 43.4 34.5 Dak Prescott 83.9 54.1 29.8 Mitchell Trubisky 65.8 38.5 27.3 Derek Carr 84.5 59.7 24.8 Nick Mullens 72.9 48.5 24.4 Daniel Jones 72.2 48.5 23.7 Philip Rivers 89.3 66.2 23.1 Gardner Minshew 77.0 54.3 22.7 https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-ranking-the-best-quarterbacks-on-first-and-second-read-throws-patrick-mahomes-drew-brees-aaron-rodgers Lol at Dak... meanwhile Wentz 4th highest on 2nd read throws. The PFF article Matts doesn’t want you to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 (edited) Nevermind. Forgot about Linehan and the kid. Edited June 18, 2020 by HTTRDynasty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 5 hours ago, Jroc04 said: Number don’t lie. Guy clearly, more than others, would rather play it safe than press the issue. He needs some confidence. Or, the more logical and statistically founded idea is - Dak has less 3rd and longs because he is a better QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jroc04 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Matts4313 said: Or, the more logical and statistically founded idea is - Dak has less 3rd and longs because he is a better QB. Meh, that’s a lot to infer from a simple stat. At this point, I’d just like to see who’s better converting 3rd downs throwing the ball. Knowing the Eagles offense from last year they had sustained drives because Carson was keeping them alive. But they lacked any over the top plays. It was a 10 yard offense but they were mostly effective at it. Given their 2nd most time of possession average, it’s easy to see they were moving the ball consistently but in very small chunks. If Wentz had his top 3 WRs healthy, the offense would have been more efficient and in turn would have scored in less plays. Much like 2017 where he was amazing on 3rd down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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