lancerman Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 12 hours ago, C0LTSFAN4L1F3 said: So then we are in agreement? Yeah I’m arguing he shouldn’t go first ballot. He should still go in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0LTSFAN4L1F3 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, lancerman said: Yeah I’m arguing he shouldn’t go first ballot. He should still go in That's what I said in my latest post that you were disputing as though I was continuing to argue he was a 1st ballot caliber player. Edited April 10, 2019 by C0LTSFAN4L1F3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childofpudding Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 Ben. The other two shouldn't get in. Eli should join Plunkett in the exclusive group of QBs who have won multiple SBs but don't get in the HoF. Rivers? He has been a top 5 QB, but I'd say he hasn't been there consistently enough and hasn't had the playoff success (yes, that matters) to get into the HoF. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 3 hours ago, C0LTSFAN4L1F3 said: That's what I said in my latest post that you were disputing as though I was continuing to argue he was a 1st ballot caliber player. I wasn’t disputing that, I was responding to your post towards me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0LTSFAN4L1F3 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, lancerman said: I wasn’t disputing that, I was responding to your post towards me In my post towards you, I said Ben should not be 1st ballot. Edited April 10, 2019 by C0LTSFAN4L1F3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrnastiesNO Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 On 2/10/2019 at 6:29 PM, Malik said: Ben is the only one I'm sure will get in 1st ballot so unless there's a significant gap between when they all retire it will likely be Ben Why is Big Ben a first ballot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrnastiesNO Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 On 2/11/2019 at 12:01 AM, JustAnotherFan said: How I think it will probably go in order: Ben-Eli-Rivers.....in that order. How I think it should go: Ben and that's it. MAYBE Rivers years later. Eli should not get in, but will. Ben should. Rivers, I'm on the fence about. I agree with you but the crazy thing is Rivers is better than both them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x0x Posted May 2, 2019 Author Share Posted May 2, 2019 Rivers has had the worse teams by a good margin. Like overall if you're ranking Top 10 season by team support, Roethlisberger is arguably Top 3 teams. The 2006 Chargers were great don't get me wrong but they were very offensive minded and because of Schotty not built for the playoffs. There's a lot of high powered offensive teams in the regular season we don't think too much of but because of LT that team might stand out for a while. Aside from that? I do think Eli carried a largely mediocre squad in 2011, perhaps the worst overall team to ever win it, maybe. The 2007 version however just under-performed in the regular season but showed up in the playoffs and was a very good defense. So I think Rivers has more low-end contending teams but it can be argued the 07 Giants were better than the 06 Chargers. Now, the stats also point to Rivers being more efficient and I think that's fair. Roethlisberger's numbers started to explode when he got Bell and Brown. That isn't a coincidence. Rivers after LT has not really had an amazing back and his receivers outside Gates have been largely inconsistent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartacus Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Eli should NEVER touch the hall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 5 hours ago, x0x said: Rivers has had the worse teams by a good margin. Like overall if you're ranking Top 10 season by team support, Roethlisberger is arguably Top 3 teams. The 2006 Chargers were great don't get me wrong but they were very offensive minded and because of Schotty not built for the playoffs. There's a lot of high powered offensive teams in the regular season we don't think too much of but because of LT that team might stand out for a while. Aside from that? I do think Eli carried a largely mediocre squad in 2011, perhaps the worst overall team to ever win it, maybe. The 2007 version however just under-performed in the regular season but showed up in the playoffs and was a very good defense. So I think Rivers has more low-end contending teams but it can be argued the 07 Giants were better than the 06 Chargers. Now, the stats also point to Rivers being more efficient and I think that's fair. Roethlisberger's numbers started to explode when he got Bell and Brown. That isn't a coincidence. Rivers after LT has not really had an amazing back and his receivers outside Gates have been largely inconsistent. The 2006 Chargers had a very good defense. That front 7 was beastly. Merriman, Phillips, Edwards, Williams, Castillo, and a couple solid complimentary pieces. The 06 and 07 Chargers were definitely complete teams and great supporting casts for Rivers. The better argument there is that by the time Rivers himself developed and became great, the supporting cast no longer was. Rivers's rise coincided with the decline/retirement of LT, Merriman, Edwards, Williams, etc. Don't downplay that 2006 team though. 7th in scoring D, and the defense had a much better playoff showing that year than the offense did. 3 picks off Brady and like 40 rushing yards allowed against the Pats. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
game3525 Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Jakuvious said: The 2006 Chargers had a very good defense. That front 7 was beastly. Merriman, Phillips, Edwards, Williams, Castillo, and a couple solid complimentary pieces. The 06 and 07 Chargers were definitely complete teams and great supporting casts for Rivers. The better argument there is that by the time Rivers himself developed and became great, the supporting cast no longer was. Rivers's rise coincided with the decline/retirement of LT, Merriman, Edwards, Williams, etc. Don't downplay that 2006 team though. 7th in scoring D, and the defense had a much better playoff showing that year than the offense did. 3 picks off Brady and like 40 rushing yards allowed against the Pats. Yeah, the 2006 and 2007 Chargers were great teams (I still think they would have gotten to the SB in 2007 if Tomlinson, Gates, and Rivers were all healthy for the AFC championship game). Like you said, Rivers problem is when he entered his prime, the three best players on the team (LT, Williams, and Merriman) hit the wall and AJ Smith never really replaced them, which I don't really hold against him. Two of those guys were HOF talents and the other was on HOF trajectory. It is hard to replace those kinds of players. Edited May 3, 2019 by game3525 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrnastiesNO Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 On 2/11/2019 at 2:11 PM, Starless said: Roethlisberger is the obvious choice based on his actual on-field track record, but the voters may choose to hold him back a year or two in some impotent protest over the allegations against him. Rivers is more deserving than Manning, but Manning is more likely to make it because muh Super Bowlz. Why is he an obvious choice. Dude has been surrounded by more talent consistently, than any other QB has in the league. I see nothing special about him than being though and gritty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apparition Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 7 hours ago, MrnastiesNO said: Why is he an obvious choice. Dude has been surrounded by more talent consistently, than any other QB has in the league. I see nothing special about him than being though and gritty. Since when does the HOF consider supporting cast? He's won more than Rivers and consistently put up better numbers than Manning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqOptic Posted May 11, 2019 Share Posted May 11, 2019 On 5/4/2019 at 2:43 PM, MrnastiesNO said: Why is he an obvious choice. Dude has been surrounded by more talent consistently, than any other QB has in the league. I see nothing special about him than being though and gritty. Yeah, he's always had elite offensive lines (Oh wait), and elite halfbacks (Oh wait), and elite defenses (Oh wait), and elite Receivers (maybe the one argument you could make although he made and won Super Bowls with Cedric Wilson, Antwaan Randle El and Jerricho Cotchery as 2nd/3rd/4th options). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waffles7 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 For sake of the matter, they all retire in the same offseason. If I had to rate them based on talent: Roethlisberger, Rivers, then Manning. How I’d see the voters voting: Roethlisberger, Manning, Rivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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