Packers Expected to sign Za'Darius Smith

[CWood21]

@Outpost31 and @Mr Anonymous the bickering needs to stop.

[vegas492]

35 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

Done. Am I doing this right?

No.  I get lost in those eyes.

[vegas492]

7 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Preston Smith will not turn out to be worth his contract.  I'm okay with what we did to get him because that's the cost of acquiring an above average EDGE who hits free agency.  He's just that though.  Above average. 

 

Full apologies for deleting a lot of your post and expanding on these few sentences.  I do agree with your overall thought.

But...let's wait and see on Preston.  He drops into coverage a lot.  He doesn't get those inside snaps like Z does.  He drops a lot and they play games with him.

I guess I feel like Z isn't this amazing without someone like Preston opposite of him.  To be fair, I think that Preston sets a mean edge against the run and is adequate in dropping into coverage.  For a very large man, he can move pretty nice in space.  

PFF has Preston with 128 snaps in coverage.  Z with 9.

Z has 110 more pass snaps than Preston.

Preston with 12 sacks and 33 pressure per Pro Football Reference.

Z with 13.5 sacks and 47 pressures.

I guess what I'm saying is...P is darned good edge player who is putting up some great pressure stats alongside of Z with 110 less pass rush snaps.  He is probably better than "above average" for this year.

Time will tell if either of them can replicate this kind of success.   

[MacReady]

Just now, CWood21 said:

@Outpost31 and @Mr Anonymous the bickering needs to stop.

Okay, dad. 

[AlexGreen#20]

10 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Full apologies for deleting a lot of your post and expanding on these few sentences.  I do agree with your overall thought.

But...let's wait and see on Preston.  He drops into coverage a lot.  He doesn't get those inside snaps like Z does.  He drops a lot and they play games with him.

I guess I feel like Z isn't this amazing without someone like Preston opposite of him.  To be fair, I think that Preston sets a mean edge against the run and is adequate in dropping into coverage.  For a very large man, he can move pretty nice in space.  

PFF has Preston with 128 snaps in coverage.  Z with 9.

Z has 110 more pass snaps than Preston.

Preston with 12 sacks and 33 pressure per Pro Football Reference.

Z with 13.5 sacks and 47 pressures.

I guess what I'm saying is...P is darned good edge player who is putting up some great pressure stats alongside of Z with 110 less pass rush snaps.  He is probably better than "above average" for this year.

Time will tell if either of them can replicate this kind of success.   

This is actually right. Z's got the sexy numbers, but Preston has also been great (while also having really good numbers).

[TheOnlyThing]

1 hour ago, Mr Anonymous said:

I'm sure ------------ was just kidding around when he said he hated this deal and set Smith's ceiling at Nick Perry.

Anonymous, in the holiday spirit, it should be remembered that when the Smith brothers were signed last March the portion of the Packer fanbase that had been conditioned to look down upon the signing free agents could not possibly have fathomed that Gute going outside the organization to add not 1 but 2 OLBs to replace 1st round Packer picks Clay Matthews and Nick Perry was not only a positive but a franchise-altering move.

Just thankful that Gute recognized the dire situation he inherited at OLB and took proactive action to get it fixed. 

[Packerraymond]

39 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Barrett - 1 year, 4 million (77 PFF), 16.5 sacks
P. Smith - 4 year 6 million, 13.5, 16, 16.5 (67.1 PFF), 10 sacks
Flowers - 5 year, 6.5 million, 17, 20, 23, 23 (82.2 PFF), 7 sacks.
Fowler - 1 year, 12 million, (73 PFF), 11.5 sacks
Matthews - 2 year, 3.5 million, 5.75 million (56.6 PFF), 8 sacks

It almost looks like money to motivate is the best way to get production out of an EDGE defender.  This was my point all along. 

Let's not act like Preston Smith is incredible.  He's certainly an upgrade no doubt, but he's not some elite pass rusher. 
Flowers I don't even know if you can count.  When was the last time the Patriots paid an elite player hitting free agency?  That's not how they operate.  The main point is that EDGE rushers who hit free agency in today's free agency shouldn't get paid because if they were as good as teams think they are, why did their team let them go? 

The fact that BOTH Z. Smith and Flowers came from the two teams who historically collect compensatory picks at an incredible rate is evidence enough here. 

Preston Smith will not turn out to be worth his contract.  I'm okay with what we did to get him because that's the cost of acquiring an above average EDGE who hits free agency.  He's just that though.  Above average. 

 

I'm not arguing that this is some 100% certainty, my only argument with you as that you are saying it is so in the opposite way. That signing EDGE players is never a good idea. Every FA is a case by case basis. There are teams like NE and Bal who love to collect comp picks. There are bad teams that spend their money in unwise ways and have to let players walk, there are backups who become great starters. 

One day I'll get you to stop speaking in certainties, until then, we argue about minute stuff.

[Mr Anonymous]

5 minutes ago, TheOnlyThing said:

Anonymous, in the holiday spirit, it should be remembered that when the Smith brothers were signed last March the portion of the Packer fanbase that had been conditioned to look down upon the signing free agents could not possibly have fathomed that Gute going outside the organization to add not 1 but 2 OLBs to replace 1st round Packer picks Clay Matthews and Nick Perry was not only a positive but a franchise-altering move.

Just thankful that Gute recognized the dire situation he inherited at OLB and took proactive action to get it fixed. 

I agree and also want to add that out of respect for the two most effective and fair moderators I've ever seen on any forum, @CWood21 and @Packerraymond, from here on out I will refrain from calling out the poster in question. Merry Christmas everyone.

[Golfman]

4 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

I'm not arguing that this is some 100% certainty, my only argument with you as that you are saying it is so in the opposite way. That signing EDGE players is never a good idea. Every FA is a case by case basis. There are teams like NE and Bal who love to collect comp picks. There are bad teams that spend their money in unwise ways and have to let players walk, there are backups who become great starters. 

One day I'll get you to stop speaking in certainties, until then, we argue about minute stuff.

Good luck with that one! 

[AlexGreen#20]

45 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Barrett - 1 year, 4 million (77 PFF), 16.5 sacks
P. Smith - 4 year 6 million, 13.5, 16, 16.5 (67.1 PFF), 10 sacks
Flowers - 5 year, 6.5 million, 17, 20, 23, 23 (82.2 PFF), 7 sacks.
Fowler - 1 year, 12 million, (73 PFF), 11.5 sacks
Matthews - 2 year, 3.5 million, 5.75 million (56.6 PFF), 8 sacks

It almost looks like money to motivate is the best way to get production out of an EDGE defender.  This was my point all along. 

Let's not act like Preston Smith is incredible.  He's certainly an upgrade no doubt, but he's not some elite pass rusher. 
Flowers I don't even know if you can count.  When was the last time the Patriots paid an elite player hitting free agency?  That's not how they operate.  The main point is that EDGE rushers who hit free agency in today's free agency shouldn't get paid because if they were as good as teams think they are, why did their team let them go? 

The fact that BOTH Z. Smith and Flowers came from the two teams who historically collect compensatory picks at an incredible rate is evidence enough here. 

Preston Smith will not turn out to be worth his contract.  I'm okay with what we did to get him because that's the cost of acquiring an above average EDGE who hits free agency.  He's just that though.  Above average. 

 

He's got 12 sacks and 33 pressures this year. What the hell else do you want from your non focused rusher? He's been really damn good this year.

[coachbuns]

1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Zadarius plays almost exactly like Perry (when healthy), if you added an elite 3T rush to Perry's game and gave him those reps. 

Why does every one of your points have to deal with a lack of effort? Perry's issues were never effort related.

Huh?  Perry tried for sure … hurt much of the time … really only 1 good year and then got signed to his big deal.  I'm a results oriented guy, effort is nice but Zadarius's effort and results far surpasses what Perry ever did.  Even better, Z is signed for more years down the road! 

[AlexGreen#20]

14 minutes ago, coachbuns said:

Huh?  Perry tried for sure … hurt much of the time … really only 1 good year and then got signed to his big deal.  I'm a results oriented guy, effort is nice but Zadarius's effort and results far surpasses what Perry ever did.  Even better, Z is signed for more years down the road! 

Which is fine, but if you're trying to explain Zadarius' game to a Packer fan who doesn't watch much of the Ravens, "A healthy Perry exterior rusher with peak Datone Jones' interior rushing" is probably the closest you're going to get.

[Toddfather]

Perry still in Green Bay? Sign him cheap and add him to the rotation... Only 5 games at the most left... Even he can do that. Hell, put the club on too!

Edited December 24, 2019 by Toddfather

[coachbuns]

9 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Which is fine, but if you're trying to explain Zadarius' game to a Packer fan who doesn't watch much of the Ravens, "A healthy Perry exterior rusher with peak Datone Jones' interior rushing" is probably the closest you're going to get.

Not sure any of that (Perry and Jones comparison to Z) would make sense to any fan.  Watching Z play and then watching those other 2 play … not even close.   Maybe I'm just not getting what you're saying?

Edited December 24, 2019 by coachbuns

[AlexGreen#20]

39 minutes ago, TheOnlyThing said:

Anonymous, in the holiday spirit, it should be remembered that when the Smith brothers were signed last March the portion of the Packer fanbase that had been conditioned to look down upon the signing free agents could not possibly have fathomed that Gute going outside the organization to add not 1 but 2 OLBs to replace 1st round Packer picks Clay Matthews and Nick Perry was not only a positive but a franchise-altering move.

Just thankful that Gute recognized the dire situation he inherited at OLB and took proactive action to get it fixed. 

So you just have one post that you copy and paste in every thread?