The Official Derek Carr Thread

[Chali21]

Another thing i think is interesting is that people talk about how 2016 was so long ago as it pertains to Carr but no one mentions that it’s been almost 20 years since Gruden has coached a top offense. I mean it seems to me that Gruden himself needs to have a ton of talent to execute his offense properly. 

[drfrey13]

3 hours ago, Chali21 said:

Another thing i think is interesting is that people talk about how 2016 was so long ago as it pertains to Carr but no one mentions that it’s been almost 20 years since Gruden has coached a top offense. I mean it seems to me that Gruden himself needs to have a ton of talent to execute his offense properly. 

Gruden needs a QB that can execute his offense.  If we can not obtain a QB that can execute his offense because it sucks then we need to move on from the coach.  I think Carr and Gruden's styles do not work well together.

Here is an analysis from before the season that I believe sums up Carr pretty well and the site has good stats from last year.

https://presnapreads.com/

Derek Carr – Low-End Starter

2018 Charting Data – 56.6 percent of Derek Carr’s attempts last season went into the 1-10 yard range, more than any other quarterback in the league.

One of the most frustrating quarterbacks in the league. Derek Carr obviously has a great arm and he was actually pretty accurate in 2018, he ranked ninth in depth-adjusted accuracy. But his problems remain. His footwork is a disaster to the point that he beats himself and his preference is to throw to covered checkdowns than open receivers in his progression. Adding Antonio Brown and Tyrell Williams might open the offense up, or it will just re-emphasize how limited a quarterback Carr is.

Downgrading on the offensive line is also a big risk for Jon Gruden. Carr has only ever been close to an effective starter when playing behind great pass protection. Without that his potential to crater even further is high.

[G]

14 hours ago, true2form said:

Serious question. How old are you guys?

49 next month

IF we move on from Carr, I don't see any reason to get a vet. Draft your guy and throw him into the fire with 'our 6 probowlers' If he fails draft another QB and let them compete. If neither win draft another. Or go full tank mode and trade all our assets like Miami. A vet that wins the same amount COSTS 20 mil (the same amount) so WTF?!? Or keep Carr and keep building and realize we NOT going to be a SB team any faster with either plan. Lamar has messed up the heads of so many fans it's ridiculous. He's the best athlete on the field and that's why he's winning. He was smart not to run his 40 because teams would have seen WR only and he believed in himself and Ozzie was smart enough to trade up to get that 5th year option being they knew he'd take time to develop. AND HE'S DEVELOPING but winning as he's developing. Teams will figure out how to stop them. Bill will have his number in the playoffs because that's what that guy does.A GREAT coach who makes adjustments. Gruden is passionate and has fire but is still learning how the NFL has changed. As Oaktown said, it will be an interesting offseason. Gruden has 8 more seasons so he could rebuild and rebuild again. Vegas doesn't need to be 'won over' as the Knights were so embraced and then won but they had so much support from day 1 and so will the Raiders. Two seasons of a 'Fitzmagic' while a rookie develops would be the way to lose the fanbase. Carr with drafting a 3rd rounder to develop and adding draft capital for 2022 to trade up it Carr sucks or the 3rd rounder does too. Then go 'all in' and then the fans will get excited again,(we'd have a good team built) but he's got 2 years where they could go full 'Browns' and the city will still embrace them. The stadium won't be like the Charger game with the opposing fanbase but expect 20% the other team because casinos WILL package deals and other teams fans would LOVE to go to VEGAS to see a game in a brand new stadium and take selfies all 4 day weekend long. Pittsburg fans travel well so watch their division games to get an idea of what it will look like.

 

EDIT: I can't believe how much hate their is for our current QB. I could understand once he's gone but YIKES!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 25, 2019 by G

[Justwinning]

18 hours ago, BayRaider said:

Gannon was a turnover machine and journeyman before Gruden. 

And we draft a QB to go with Fitz. 

Gannon wasn’t a turnover machine.

Edited December 25, 2019 by Justwinning

[Jerry]

9 hours ago, bucksavage1 said:

6 pro bowlers on offense?

I guess Lamar Jackson does too? This is a terrible argument. Good teams get more votes. 

[raidr4life]

1 hour ago, drfrey13 said:

Gruden needs a QB that can execute his offense.  If we can not obtain a QB that can execute his offense because it sucks then we need to move on from the coach.  I think Carr and Gruden's styles do not work well together.

Here is an analysis from before the season that I believe sums up Carr pretty well and the site has good stats from last year.

https://presnapreads.com/

Derek Carr – Low-End Starter

2018 Charting Data – 56.6 percent of Derek Carr’s attempts last season went into the 1-10 yard range, more than any other quarterback in the league.

One of the most frustrating quarterbacks in the league. Derek Carr obviously has a great arm and he was actually pretty accurate in 2018, he ranked ninth in depth-adjusted accuracy. But his problems remain. His footwork is a disaster to the point that he beats himself and his preference is to throw to covered checkdowns than open receivers in his progression. Adding Antonio Brown and Tyrell Williams might open the offense up, or it will just re-emphasize how limited a quarterback Carr is.

Downgrading on the offensive line is also a big risk for Jon Gruden. Carr has only ever been close to an effective starter when playing behind great pass protection. Without that his potential to crater even further is high.

Totally accurate.

[raidr4life]

36 minutes ago, G said:

49 next month

IF we move on from Carr, I don't see any reason to get a vet. Draft your guy and throw him into the fire with 'our 6 probowlers' If he fails draft another QB and let them compete. If neither win draft another. Or go full tank mode and trade all our assets like Miami. A vet that wins the same amount COSTS 20 mil (the same amount) so WTF?!? Or keep Carr and keep building and realize we NOT going to be a SB team any faster with either plan. Lamar has messed up the heads of so many fans it's ridiculous. He's the best athlete on the field and that's why he's winning. He was smart not to run his 40 because teams would have seen WR only and he believed in himself and Ozzie was smart enough to trade up to get that 5th year option being they knew he'd take time to develop. AND HE'S DEVELOPING but winning as he's developing. Teams will figure out how to stop them. Bill will have his number in the playoffs because that's what that guy does.A GREAT coach who makes adjustments. Gruden is passionate and has fire but is still learning how the NFL has changed. As Oaktown said, it will be an interesting offseason. Gruden has 8 more seasons so he could rebuild and rebuild again. Vegas doesn't need to be 'won over' as the Knights were so embraced and then won but they had so much support from day 1 and so will the Raiders. Two seasons of a 'Fitzmagic' while a rookie develops would be the way to lose the fanbase. Carr with drafting a 3rd rounder to develop and adding draft capital for 2022 to trade up it Carr sucks or the 3rd rounder does too. Then go 'all in' and then the fans will get excited again,(we'd have a good team built) but he's got 2 years where they could go full 'Browns' and the city will still embrace them. The stadium won't be like the Charger game with the opposing fanbase but expect 20% the other team because casinos WILL package deals and other teams fans would LOVE to go to VEGAS to see a game in a brand new stadium and take selfies all 4 day weekend long. Pittsburg fans travel well so watch their division games to get an idea of what it will look like.

 

EDIT: I can't believe how much hate their is for our current QB. I could understand once he's gone but YIKES!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It has nothing to do with Lamar until Carr can throw an accurate deep ball, make unscripted plays and use his feet, it's him that limits the offense. Every defense knows he won't run, he won't test us deep, they know exactly what Carr does. No need to gameplan for it.

Edited December 25, 2019 by raidr4life

[MrOaktown_56]

That presnap reads post is dated. Cian has actually acknowledged that Carr has worked on a lot of these areas. And he has. His footwork has improved. So has his management of the pocket and use of his legs. He has also shown that he is willing to push the ball downfield when he has receivers he trusts without putting the ball in danger.

Im telling you, if Gruden incorporates more spread concepts and play action, this system will fit Carr just fine.

[G]

1 hour ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

 

Im telling you, if Gruden incorporates more spread concepts and play action, this system will fit Carr just fine.

No huddle fast paced he does well in. Maybe he overthinks and it has him playing safe, so remove that by quick decisions and instinct. He might throw more picks but many more touchdowns too.

[bucksavage1]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

5

10 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

This is another terrible argument. Ingold is great for the run game, but let's not equate Ingold as a pro bowl alternate with Julio Jones. The pro bowl is a meaningless nomination. We know that Darren Waller is an excellent tight end. We didn't need him to receive a nomination, or lack thereof to know that.

The WR group is unimpressive, especially considering Williams has been hobbled for most of the year (prior to which I might add he was averaging 1 touchdown a week). When Renfrow has been healthy and available, the Carr Renfrow connection has been excellent. Even with both, the receiver group is mediocre. Without both of them at 100%, it's a bad group. Moreau and Carr also had a decent little connection, but unfortunately he suffered the knee injury and that caused the WR group to take an even bigger hit.

Brown has been out for the last few weeks and with a sieve in RT Brandon Parker, Carr has actually managed the pocket and pressure quite well without Brown.

The last few weeks with Jacobs out, you can argue that Carr has actually played better. Not because Jacobs has been out, but because Gruden has spread out the offense and allowed Carr to play more from the gun. 

Point being let's give credit where it's due. There is certainly talent on the offense as it stands. But it's also far from perfect. Carr is not a guy who can carry scrubs. But if you give him talent he will excel. Even the guys we consider elite (let's say Rodgers, Wilson, Mahomes, and Brees) are currently playing with talented offenses. If you add a talented young receiver in the draft, IMO the offense will have the balance it needs to excel.

Maybe I'm wrong. It will be an interesting offseason to say the least.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3

9 hours ago, Chali21 said:

Why do people keep citing the pro bowl like it’s some big accomplishment, i mean Carr himself is a 3 time pro bowler. And he only has one receiver who made it to the pro bowl in Waller. The same dude who’s been pretty quiet as of late. So tell me just who else on this offense is supposed to be that go to guy?

 The majority of players who are signed to NFL teams never make the pro bowl. It is a big deal to every player to be named and it a legitimate honor to ever be named. There's not one player who would say being in the pro bowl is meaningless or not an accomplishment.

 

 

Terrible Argument? What is a terrible argument is baseless claims that he has limited talent on offense. But when it is 6 pro bowlers on offense is not proof it is discarded as meaningless. I cant even

 

[MrOaktown_56]

By your reasoning, Derek Carr also has 3 pro bowls. Why would you ever consider replacing him?

[bucksavage1]

12 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

By your reasoning, Derek Carr also has 3 pro bowls. Why would you ever consider replacing him?

No,my logic is in 2019 the present. Not for past production a few seasons ago which we all see he isn't the same player. I hope for the Raiders sake he proves us wrong but so far our ceiling with him is a middle of the pack team

Edited December 25, 2019 by bucksavage1

[MrOaktown_56]

 

 

 

1

1 hour ago, bucksavage1 said:

No,my logic is in 2019 the present. Not for past production a few seasons ago which we all see he isn't the same player. I hope for the Raiders sake he proves us wrong but so far our ceiling with him is a middle of the pack team

Our CEILING? We are a middle of the pack team right now. Let's not get mired in hyperbole.

You don't think this team will win more games when we add more talent in the offseason?

It's his 2nd year in the same offense and he's having a career year statistically. Last time he had 2 years in the same offense was in 2016.

Personally, I think he'll take another step forward next year in his 3rd year in the scheme, as he builds more chemistry and trust with the current offensive players and we add another talented receiver.

He's not perfect though and I myself have not been pleased with his performance in some key games, mainly the 2 KC games. Right now, I believe some continuity would be the best thing for this team. It's not an indefensible opinion though. And I would like to see if he plays better/worse in the playoffs, considering we haven't seen him do it to this point.

 

 

[MrOaktown_56]

1 hour ago, bucksavage1 said:

No,my logic is in 2019 the present. Not for past production a few seasons ago which we all see he isn't the same player. I hope for the Raiders sake he proves us wrong but so far our ceiling with him is a middle of the pack team

To your other point, I don't see how he's that far off 2016. He has less talent in his receiving group, but is putting up career numbers in terms of completion percentage, YPA, passer rating, etc etc. He's also using his legs more and extending plays more than 2017 or 18. He's also making better decisions and displaying much better footwork. 

If you want to move on, that's fine. But let's not pretend he's the same player he was in 17 and 18. He's playing better. He also has more help around him, which is not a coincidence. When you help a qb by giving them more talent and protection, they will play better. It's pretty simple.

[raidr4life]

2 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

To your other point, I don't see how he's that far off 2016. He has less talent in his receiving group, but is putting up career numbers in terms of completion percentage, YPA, passer rating, etc etc. He's also using his legs more and extending plays more than 2017 or 18. He's also making better decisions and displaying much better footwork. 

If you want to move on, that's fine. But let's not pretend he's the same player he was in 17 and 18. He's playing better. He also has more help around him, which is not a coincidence. When you help a qb by giving them more talent and protection, they will play better. It's pretty simple.

I really don't know what QB you been watching.