"What Happened in Green Bay" - fascinating piece on Rodgers/McCarthy

[Coffee & Contemplation]

Well this topic is dead.

To recap...

- Some past/current teammates say Rodgers is a meanie. 
- Some past/current teammates say Rodgers is great. 
- Some past/current players say McCarthy is an apathetic dummy. 
- Some past/current players say McCarthy was fine. 

It looks like Rodg and McCarthy didn't always get along. That makes sense. 

Everything else is just noise. 

[Jlowe22]

5 hours ago, childofpudding said:

I think so. I wasn't the first to spot it, I can't remember who did. It was a month or two ago that someone said it, and it just clicked. There are no wildly different font colors, but other than that it is the same writing style with the same incoherent ramblings.

It’s very similar style.

[ditchdigger]

22 hours ago, MWil23 said:

Ah you’re right it was! 

 

23 hours ago, ET80 said:

Was it @ditchdigger or @ReggieCamp? I remember ReggieCamp, but could be wrong.

 

[Xenos]

15 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Very interesting, and very damning at the same time, particularly to MM

I actually thought the entire article was equally damning to both. Especially this part at the end:

Quote

Right before the Packers announced LaFleur as their new head coach, the source close to the team says Murphy called Rodgers to tell him who they were going with. He didn't ask for permission—he told him who the choice was. There was a brief pause on the other end of the phone before Rodgers eventually spoke. Murphy made it clear that Rodgers would need to accept coaching. "Don't be the problem," he told him. "Don't be the problem."

Whoever's to blame, Murphy does not want drama engulfing his team again.

The source close to the team says the president is "tired of the diva stuff."

Over the years, Rodgers has preferred to surround himself with "yes-men," multiple sources say. That's why many thought Murphy would hire a yes-man to be the next head coach. To keep the peace. One former personnel man in Green Bay insists Murphy should've gotten Rodgers' input and approval because, in his view, Rodgers is the one who makes the Packers relevant. Instead, Murphy made it clear to Rodgers that the organization was behind LaFleur.

The Packers' brass did not feel the need to get Rodgers' approval on whomever it hired. Murphy wanted a young coach who'd challenge the entire team, not just the quarterback.

 

[HoboRocket]

On 4/4/2019 at 7:12 PM, ET80 said:

Case Keenum was also in this discussion. As was Brock Osweiler (another former Browns QB - albiet from Houston to Cleveland). Ryan Fitzpatrick was the best of this bunch, by a significant margin at that. And this is all predecessed by none other than franchise benchmark...Matt friggin Schaub. 

How I didn't have a stroke in that timeframe still amazes me. I...I think I might be immortal. If that didn't kill me, nothing will. 

I mean, until Deshaun Watson, Schaub was the greatest Texans QB ever. He's still the most accomplished. But, yeesh... Bill O'Brien's early Texans career was QB hell.

[AlexGreen#20]

You guys get half of this is pure fabrication, right?

[Pugger]

20 hours ago, Uncle Buck said:

So have I.  You are not alone.

But had your team not passed on him 2 times in 2005 I have a feeling your opinion of him would be vastly different than it is now.

[Pugger]

20 hours ago, Uncle Buck said:

If they turned on Favre, they are more than capable of turning on Rodgers. 

As far as the whole McCarthy/Rodgers situation is concerned, I think success went to both of their heads and both of them wanted to take most of the credit for it.  You can't let petty things like ego get in the way of the ultimate goal.  I'm sure Bill Belichick and Tom Brady both have big egos too, but to their credit, they have been able to put winning as a more important thing than their own egos.  For this, and many other reasons, they have been able to create an incredible dynasty, whereas, what could have been built in Green Bay was sabotaged by the two guys at the top.

Come to think of it, Ted Thompson is another guy who has been MASSIVELY overrated for YEARS.  "The Sleeper" as he should now be called, deserves a big share of the blame as well for the team underperforming.

In reality it was Favre who quit on the Packers and the Packers' brass took advantage of that situation by turning the reins over to Rodgers.  I seem to recall Favre in an interview not long after that initial retirement hint about making a comeback.  I wonder if Brett was getting weary of McCarthy too.  It couldn't be because he thought the team couldn't be successful because the last game he played wearing green and gold he was playing in the NFCC game.

Doesn't the buck always stop at the HC?  I suspect McCarthy did what Mike Sherman did with Favre and let the inmate (QB) run the asylum.  I can't imagine that ever happening in NE!

I agree about your assessment of Thompson.  The past few drafts he oversaw were poor.  Heck, not one player from the 2015 draft is on the roster today.  The Packers have been historically conservative when it comes to personnel moves (we kept mediocre HCs too long and McCarthy hung onto lousy assistants forever) so it was a big surprise when McCarthy was sent packing during the last season.   

[Uncle Buck]

26 minutes ago, Pugger said:

But had your team not passed on him 2 times in 2005 I have a feeling your opinion of him would be vastly different than it is now.

You're probably right about McCarthy letting Favre "run the asylum".  He was a new head coach dealing with a three-time league MVP.  It would have been tough trying to reign him in.  McCarthy probably learned through that situation, though, and I wonder if that could be part of the reason for the friction MM and Rodgers

I don't blame the Vikings for passing on Rodgers.  Daunte Culpepper was coming off an MVP caliber season in 2004, so we didn't need a QB.  If we had drafted him, he probably never would have become the player he did in Green Bay anyway.  He fell into the perfect situation being able to sit behind Favre spend three years getting coached up by Mike McCarthy.     

[MacReady]

Aaron Rodgers still protected by, "It's hearsay from butt hurt former teammates."  McCarthy?  Nah, all that's true about him. 

Packer fans are in the delusional stage of a Hall of Fame QB career.  Just like it was never Favre's fault when he'd throw 6 interceptions in the playoffs or throw THE interception in the playoffs, it's not Aaron's fault.  Nobody is open, offensive line sucks, he doesn't have a tight end.  It's not true.  Receivers ran wide open frequently last year and Rodgers flat out did not throw to them.  Graham and Marquez Valdez-Scantling especially were open far more often than they were targeted, and not in cases of extreme pressure or Rodgers not looking their way.  These are cases of Rodgers looking directly at them being wide open and not throwing to them.

If Matt LaFleur doesn't fix Aron's extreme problem with trust and giving his teammates a chance, the Packers will not win another Super Bowl with the most physically gifted QB of all-time.  It's sad that 41-year-old Tom Brady is more effective with less talent than 35-year-old Aaron Rodgers, and I wish Rodgers had Tom's football brain and lack of ego. 

[William Lee]

1 hour ago, Outpost31 said:

It's sad that 41-year-old Tom Brady is more effective with less talent than 35-year-old Aaron Rodgers, and I wish Rodgers had Tom's football brain and lack of ego. 

 

When bulls were in trouble, Jordan scored, himself. When a football team in trouble  its QB FINDS receivers to throw to, not gain yards or score himself.

The most important skill for a QB is to know where to throw, not throwing balls.

You can't find another QB who is so good at reading defense that opponents cant play zone D against him. Comparing Rodgers ability of reading defense to Brady's is like comparing a third grade to a PhD 

[MacReady]

Just now, William Lee said:

You don't know what talents are for a QB.

When bulls were in trouble, Jordan scored, himself. When a football team in trouble  its QB FINDS receivers to throw to, not gain yards or score himself.

The most important skill for a QB is to know where to throw, not throwing balls.

That's literally exactly what my entire post was about, so thanks for the Michael Jordan story. 

 

[William Lee]

1 minute ago, Outpost31 said:

That's literally exactly what my entire post was about, so thanks for the Michael Jordan story. 

 

Sorry for misunderstanding, I thought you were talking about QB'S talents.

[KellChippy]

4 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

You guys get half of this is pure fabrication, right?

And the half that’s true is happening in almost every nfl locker room in one form or another.  

[TheOnlyThing]

On 4/5/2019 at 8:40 AM, tom cody said:

Rodgers is one of the better QB's all time. It's going to be a shame that it's looking like he'll retire with just 1 Super Bowl win. 

^^^

This is the hard truth that certain delusional fans of the Packers former GM and former head coach McCarthy just can't escape.

Some fans truly considered a GM who refused make player trades, signed fewer free agents than any other NFL GM, and continued to devote a disproportionate amount of draft capital to a defense that alternated from average to crappy over the second half of his tenure to somehow be "great." Now, as more and more stories come out about how the former GM literally fell asleep in meetings, was mentally "not there," and refused to communicate with others in the organization there seems to be a chorus building from his loyal followers that the GM's declining performance must be excused because his health was deteriorating. It may or may not be true that his medical issues adversely affected him, but what is indisputably true is that his performance as a GM between 2011-2017 was not very good.

As for McCarthy, again a sizable contingent of Packer fans viewed his simple, basic approach to the game as "genius" and continue to refuse to believe his "success" depended upon superior offensive talent (prior to 2011 the Pack did draft a lot of talent especially on offense and not just at QB with Rodgers). Thus, even after Rodgers went down in 2017 and the backup QB (Hundley, who McCarthy had been grooming for 3 seasons) and the rest of the offense looked like a Pee Wee league team (shut out twice, at Lambeau), and most objective fans concluded Rodgers' absence had exposed the lack of overall talent on the team and McCarthy's coaching deficiencies, the loyalists continued to contend he is a 'great" coach.

McCarthy's fans were also sure this "great" coach would be scooped up in a heartbeat if GB were foolish enough to let him go. They specifically pointed to Cleveland a team with a GM (Dorsey) and other front office personnel (Wolf & Highsmith) who came from GB and a promising young QB in Mayfield whom McCarthy's fans were sure the Browns would want to have tutored by the alleged "QB whisperer."

When Cleveland took a hard pass on Mac and no other team came a calling the new explanation from the McCarthy loyalists is that he just wants to sit out a year before some lucky NFL team snatches him up. We'll see.

As it stands, the Packers former GM left the building at the end of the 2017 season and is rumored to be in such a poor state that he may not even be able to attend his induction into the team's HOF. McCarthy is at home and unemployed. Meanwhile, McCarthy's final offensive coordinator Joe Philbin (after his second go around in GB) is unemployed. McCarthy's long-time and loyal assistant head coach Winston Moss is unemployed. His longtime defensive coordinator Dom Capers (the architect of so many blowout losses in the playoffs) was finally fired by McCarthy after the 2017 season, went unemployed in 2018, and now is some low-level consultant with the Jaguars, and his final STs coordinator Ron Zook took his talents to the AAF (and an entire thread could be devoted to the putrid STs play in GB over McCarthy's tenure -- think 2014 NFC Championship loss to Seattle and recall that the onside kick debacle was the 2nd worse STs play that day). The lack of interest in McCarthy's top assistants is not exactly an endorsement of his ability to put together a staff -- or of the coaching staff in GB these past several seasons.

The Packers certainly had a lot of relative success while the previous GM and McCarthy were in charge between 2005-2018. The team also had Hall Of Famers at QB for every one of those seasons (Favre for 3 season and Rodgers thereafter) and made just one Super Bowl. Seems pretty clear the QBs were the principal reason for that success.

As a Packers fan, it is just a shame that the greatness at QB was paired with a GM and head coach who were not all that great.