Lets Discuss All Things Wrestling - Even The T-Shirt Company AEW!

[Fresh Prince]

Was a fun PLE to be at, all good matches besides the woman one. Crowd was amazing also.

[TOUCAN]

If I may, I have some thoughts on last night's show which on the whole, I'd say I enjoyed. Some things I'll get to.

• I actually enjoyed the women's wargames match, but I'm very much not seeing the point of Damage CTRL right now. They've not been jobbers per se but Bayley holding something would make a world of difference I think.
• My God, Rhea Ripley.
• Loved the fact that AJ and Finn had a clean match. Love to see them be able to showcase eachother a bit. I gotta believe this thing still isn't over but Judgement Day needs a direction otherwise. I heard that H is wanting to push Finn and I think it's needed because it's been more about Rhea and Dom than it has been about Finn and he's the top guy there.
• Ronda has seriously regressed. Just in all aspects of being entertaining. I really think she's got 'go away' heat from the audience as a whole. I never thought I'd be praying for the day for Charlotte to come back and take that title from her but here we are. She doesn't talk well, doesn't work well, doesn't do much positive and her coming back has not helped anyone or anything in that division. I could not care less about the Smackdown womens division with Ronda at the top.
• Anyone who thought Theory was going to get buried was wrong. I realize the odd way in which he won doesn't make him look strong, but it doesn't make him look weak because he won, and it doesn't make Lashley look weak, and it doesn't make Rollins look weak. Theory without the briefcase, without the selfie gimmick, I'm loving him as a heel.
• This story telling with The Bloodline is an all timer, and it's going to get even better when they facilitate the end of it with Sami as the caveat. The looks Roman had last night, the followup suggests this isn't done. Maybe in the interim we get a Sami KO feud, who knows. I honestly would not be shocked during the celebration I'm sure they're going to have, that Roman facilitates a beatdown on Sami. Something along the lines of "You did that to your own family. Your best friend. Best man at your wedding. What makes me think you wouldn't try and do the same to my family" or something. Levies a huge beatdown, that ends with Zayn written off for a bit and a Royal Rumble run. I seriously think they're building Sami to have a bigger reaction to winning a title than Kofimania or the Yes Movement. Sami has always been great, but now he's getting a real chance to connect with the crowd and Hunter has always been a big Sami guy. It wouldn't surprise me in the least.

Solid show overall. 7.5/10. Little chaotic but thats to be expected in an event like this.

[Dr LBC]

Evidently the plan, from what I've been hearing is an eventual KOSZ vs Usos title match at Mania, led to be from the sound of it KO vs Reigns at RR, Sami as part of an Elimination Chamber title match challenge (whether that's in the Chamber or not there's been no indication) at the event that's taking place in Montreal - so we know what kind of OVER babyface Sami is going to be for that event (and could actually help cement getting the Bloodline viewed as out-and-out heels if that's where the "de-Ucing" occurs.  With no actual December PLE scheduled, I kind of hope, since it seems like the original plan was Sheamus vs Roman at Rumble before they pivoted, that they give us a 20ish minute title match at a one-off type PLE (call it Christmas Chaos or something) similar to Day 1 this past year.

There's a part of me that still holds out a candle that Sami's eventual ouster from the Bloodline is an actual replacement and Hunter goes out at either finally inks Jacob Fatu or Lance Anoa'i (who would admittedly be less impressive and impactful than Jacob, but could still be an effective lackey cousin that's the clear low-rung of the ladder line).

Legitimately, I feel like Ronda just doesn't have the draw that she used to (and no, it's not really a ton on her ringwork despite Twitter's opinion; she hasn't exactly had great dance partner's, aside from a few one-off's, since Charlotte).  Really, having her full-time has been a bigger contributor because she gets overexposed and doesn't feel as special - meanwhile the luster on her star outside of pro wrestling is nearly non-existent.  Maybe you can re-spark her going into Mania so that a match between her and Becky actually feels like the draw it once would have.  Only way I can really think of is to put her in the EC and book her like they did Shayna in that match where she just mows down every one (enter at 3, get two eliminations - or spare her one that can be seed planted for a feud later in 2023 as "the one she didn't take out," then she's the pacing lioness waiting in the center of the ring for each new pod release and taking them out with relative ease.  I just have to question whether that kind of build might not be wasted on Ronda given how long she may actually be with the company.  Whereas you could do similar with Rhea and mint/establish her as the female mega-monster (not exactly a female Brock, but relatively close).

[beekay414]

1 hour ago, Dr LBC said:

Evidently the plan, from what I've been hearing is an eventual KOSZ vs Usos title match at Mania, led to be from the sound of it KO vs Reigns at RR, Sami as part of an Elimination Chamber title match challenge (whether that's in the Chamber or not there's been no indication) at the event that's taking place in Montreal - so we know what kind of OVER babyface Sami is going to be for that event (and could actually help cement getting the Bloodline viewed as out-and-out heels if that's where the "de-Ucing" occurs.  With no actual December PLE scheduled, I kind of hope, since it seems like the original plan was Sheamus vs Roman at Rumble before they pivoted, that they give us a 20ish minute title match at a one-off type PLE (call it Christmas Chaos or something) similar to Day 1 this past year.

There's a part of me that still holds out a candle that Sami's eventual ouster from the Bloodline is an actual replacement and Hunter goes out at either finally inks Jacob Fatu or Lance Anoa'i (who would admittedly be less impressive and impactful than Jacob, but could still be an effective lackey cousin that's the clear low-rung of the ladder line).

Legitimately, I feel like Ronda just doesn't have the draw that she used to (and no, it's not really a ton on her ringwork despite Twitter's opinion; she hasn't exactly had great dance partner's, aside from a few one-off's, since Charlotte).  Really, having her full-time has been a bigger contributor because she gets overexposed and doesn't feel as special - meanwhile the luster on her star outside of pro wrestling is nearly non-existent.  Maybe you can re-spark her going into Mania so that a match between her and Becky actually feels like the draw it once would have.  Only way I can really think of is to put her in the EC and book her like they did Shayna in that match where she just mows down every one (enter at 3, get two eliminations - or spare her one that can be seed planted for a feud later in 2023 as "the one she didn't take out," then she's the pacing lioness waiting in the center of the ring for each new pod release and taking them out with relative ease.  I just have to question whether that kind of build might not be wasted on Ronda given how long she may actually be with the company.  Whereas you could do similar with Rhea and mint/establish her as the female mega-monster (not exactly a female Brock, but relatively close).

Yeah, don't waste it on Ronda. Purists really don't care for her and her outside draw has been dead since she ate that Holm headkick and Nunes 39 second blasting where she became no longer invincible. 

[StLunatic88]

4 hours ago, Dr LBC said:

With no actual December PLE scheduled, I kind of hope, since it seems like the original plan was Sheamus vs Roman at Rumble before they pivoted, that they give us a 20ish minute title match at a one-off type PLE (call it Christmas Chaos or something) similar to Day 1 this past year.

I still think Sheamus gets his shot at Roman in DEC/JAN. It honestly might be on a regular SmackDown, especially if they are trying to push a number Friday, possibly going into the end of the NFL season, or even first round of the playoffs

Edited November 29, 2022 by StLunatic88

[StLunatic88]

4 hours ago, Dr LBC said:

Legitimately, I feel like Ronda just doesn't have the draw that she used to (and no, it's not really a ton on her ringwork despite Twitter's opinion;

I’ll be honest with you, I don’t think she was ever the draw that WWE wanted her to be. She was a big pop the first time, and then it fell off every time after that. Most of her matches have been disappointing as well. She isn’t a personality (she’s actually a negative there) and when you didn’t have her on TV all the time she was forgotten. Then when she is, she’s completely overexposed. She presents as a heel in the ring, but they’ve always wanted her to be a baby face. And now by the time she’s a heel, people are kinda done with her.

Might be one of their biggest misses. Especially when you see how well they have used Logan Paul

[StLunatic88]

A few side notes, while I know they won’t be getting rid of the big screen entrance anytime soon, if still sucks. 

Their ring announcers were really annoying at Survivor Series. Was the fist time I noticed, not sure what was different

And since we have someone who was actually there, maybe they can shed some light, felt like they were piping in noise again on the broadcast (more than usual)

[Fresh Prince]

51 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

A few side notes, while I know they won’t be getting rid of the big screen entrance anytime soon, if still sucks. 

Their ring announcers were really annoying at Survivor Series. Was the fist time I noticed, not sure what was different

And since we have someone who was actually there, maybe they can shed some light, felt like they were piping in noise again on the broadcast (more than usual)

If they were piping in noise I couldn’t tell. The crowd was loud the whole time, except for maybe the Rhonda match. 

[StLunatic88]

6 minutes ago, Fresh Prince said:

If they were piping in noise I couldn’t tell. The crowd was loud the whole time, except for maybe the Rhonda match. 

Oh I have no doubt you all were loud. I just meant certain things just sounded piped in for the broadcast, almost like they did during the performance center

some of the big ‘boo’ spots felt like it, in both War Games matched. Then the chanting in Rollins entrance almost always feels like it (it seems too crisp from a crowd) very different than when it’s organic during a match, and even during Romans first spear attempt.

There was ‘reports’ out there that they drowned out some Sasha chants during the Rousey match

[Fresh Prince]

9 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

Oh I have no doubt you all were loud. I just meant certain things just sounded piped in for the broadcast, almost like they did during the performance center

some of the big ‘boo’ spots felt like it, in both War Games matched. Then the chanting in Rollins entrance almost always feels like it (it seems too crisp from a crowd) very different than when it’s organic during a match, and even during Romans first spear attempt.

There was ‘reports’ out there that they drowned out some Sasha chants during the Rousey match

There was definitely Sasha chants during the match, as I participated in that one lol.

 

[beekay414]

4 hours ago, Fresh Prince said:

There was definitely Sasha chants during the match, as I participated in that one lol.

[Fresh Prince]

40 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

Sasha was my favorite female wrestler besides Rhea. Would always welcome her back.

[Dr LBC]

17 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

I’ll be honest with you, I don’t think she was ever the draw that WWE wanted her to be. She was a big pop the first time, and then it fell off every time after that. Most of her matches have been disappointing as well. She isn’t a personality (she’s actually a negative there) and when you didn’t have her on TV all the time she was forgotten. Then when she is, she’s completely overexposed. She presents as a heel in the ring, but they’ve always wanted her to be a baby face. And now by the time she’s a heel, people are kinda done with her.

Might be one of their biggest misses. Especially when you see how well they have used Logan Paul

She was a draw, but I very much blame current Vince (i.e. Vince of the last 20 years) for blowing it the way Vince of the 90's/00's never would have because that Vince had the good sense to take pure athletes with personality (but knowing that personality doesn't just immediately translate to good promo) and not rush them, not overexpose them, and keep them as special attractions where you can.  Vince saw... "Oh, I can make a lot of money running her against Charlotte, who I already love and want to push to the moon," so he just did.  So much of Ronda was handled in the clearly VKM heavy-hand way: The ridiculous eye makeup, the smiling Ronda (who was never the Ronda from MMA that people were familiar with, but Charlotte's a heel and we want her paired with Charlotte so she's gotta be a babyface), and even the steering her into the vein of being a striker (I'd be money its because Brock was largely a striker in MMA) when that wasn't what came naturally to her.

And Ronda certainly did herself no favors because she's a natural heel (when not scripted), so her social media presence and biting back at fans that were critical of her on there (if it were just keeping kayfabe that's the sort of stuff we lauded KO for when he first came up), but that was just Ronda's natural ego getting the best of her.  Then throw in that she can't act; she can emote and be herself, but when you give her a script to memorize and key lines to hit, she's going to flub them.  There's a reason why the best film role she's had was in the Fast and Furious where she had like 2 or 3 very short lines, mostly just non-verbals, and her main role was to scrap with Michelle Rodriguez.

It why I'm at the point with thinking she's probably a lost cause.  Given her age, that she's going to want time off for her family before too long anyway, and that she has stuff she really needs to polish that others on the roster are already doing much better than she is, there's nothing that Ronda can be built back into that Shayna can't do - just as an example (and Shayna's a safer worker because Shayna's been training longer and was an actual fan to begin with).  I mean, I don't need to tell you how the catch wrestling that Barnette and Billy Robinson trained Shayna and others in was quite literally Japanese pro wrestling (because Japanese fighters would do pro wrestling on the side to make extra money).  You either make Ronda a Brock type attraction where she's brought around maybe once or twice a year (and even then she's limited - likely - because she's likely not in a position to work all the Saudi shows) or you just let her go by the wayside.

[StLunatic88]

30 minutes ago, Dr LBC said:

She was a draw, but I very much blame current Vince (i.e. Vince of the last 20 years) for blowing it the way Vince of the 90's/00's never would have because that Vince had the good sense to take pure athletes with personality (but knowing that personality doesn't just immediately translate to good promo) and not rush them, not overexpose them, and keep them as special attractions where you can

This is mostly what I meant when saying she wasnt ever the draw they wanted her to be. They flubbed it out of the gate, and I dont think she ever gained enough traction because of it. 

She miffed some people going with Pipers gimmick, she miffed others by stealing the spotlight from Auska, and then as you said she is naturally a heel, and should have come out of the gate as that. She should have had her posse (dont let them call themselves the Four Horsewomen obviously) but that way she didnt need to be on TV much, just let Bazler and Shafir be the representatives on a week to week basis, likely with a Mouthpiece (make someone their "trainer" or handler). 

I know its in the past, so nothing will change obviously, but if she is debuting at the Rumble, just have her win the freaking Rumble. Its also hindsight, but what did Auska actually get out of being "winner of the first womens rumble"? At this point, just the answer to a trivia question. And Honestly Im still surprised to this day that Vince didnt want that answer to be Ronda Rousey forever.

[bcb1213]

4 hours ago, beekay414 said:

Show was in Boston, hometown

Kind of like CM Punk in Chicago