Lets Discuss All Things Wrestling - Even The T-Shirt Company AEW!

[beekay414]

17 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

these are my thoughts exactly. Dude could be on par or even better than peak heel MJF and since he's got real world clout you know WWE will continue to push the crap outta him. The big question is how much time will he commit to this? He could be a guy top 5 all time heel or he could be a blip. 

He apparently blew out his knee entirely halfway through the match. Tore his meniscus and MCL and will have an MRI to determine if he tore his ACL or not.

[Deadpulse]

19 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

He apparently blew out his knee entirely halfway through the match. Tore his meniscus and MCL and will have an MRI to determine if he tore his ACL or not.

how the hell do you tear an ACL and finish that match and then arguably no sell the ending by immediately standing up to talk to your brother? 

[beekay414]

Just now, Deadpulse said:

how the hell do you tear an ACL and finish that match and then arguably no sell the ending by immediately standing up to talk to your brother? 

Adrenaline?

[Dr LBC]

On 11/4/2022 at 8:55 PM, StLunatic88 said:

Didn’t love that Rampage. The “all over-ness” is starting to get to me.

AAC match was really fun (minus Tyson)

The woman’s tag match was next to useless. They love to fast forward through feuds, yet slow play the obvious turns thst should happen.

What are they doing with JAS? Seems like an unforced misstep is eminent.

Really hated that main event. Seems weird that they are half way building up Embassy, are planting the breakup of WarJoe (only positive there) and also setting up the Hoss showdown. Seems like it would have been a lot better if Hobbs’ music hits at the crescendo, distracts Wardlow, leave Joe out to dry in a 3-1 situation, and GoA get N impressive win while not hurting Joe or Wardlow individually all

The JAS is literally what it portends to be... it's the Chris Jericho show where Chris gets to play like he's one of the cool kids doing the stuff that got the Jacksons and others labeled as edgy and mavericks in the pre-AEW days (the "Cease and Desist" era and the t-shirt stuff), except Jericho has no sense for when to cut himself off.  Minard is the only palatable one to me in the group - and even then it's for the same reason why Santino Marella was entertaining to me... which has an expiration date.  Because it still keeps him in the forefront of the company, Jericho will keep doing this shtick even when we're at a year removed from Vince and "Sports Entertainment" being a thing, to the point that he'll basically be parodying himself - because he'll be trying to satirized a lack of logic in storytelling while refusing to let any sense of logic apply in his own stories (and "logic" being stuff that should be occurring, and that he's well aware should be occurring, but he strikes because he'd rather the stroking of his own ego).  I mean, if you're going to do a gimmick that's an end-around Vince satire, Chris, at least have the decency to tear both quads getting into the ring.

[beekay414]

lol Trips just buried Austin Theory forever

[Dr LBC]

13 hours ago, beekay414 said:

lol Trips just buried Austin Theory forever

He's 25, it's definitely not a forever burial.  But this may well have bee the best thing for him; the current gimmick (and the amount of bleed-over it had to where his gimmick was the only semblance of a character he had going) was trash and he needed a clear start-from-scratch reboot on everything save his name (I'm talking strip him all the way back to his Evolve persona and overwrite every character bit he had in NXT) - Austin isn't going to get over as a himbo because there are too many other guys on the roster who are better at it... mostly because they are actual himbos.

So either send him back down to NXT to recraft a new persona and work on his promos or give him a damn mouthpiece and just let him Luger it up.

[StLunatic88]

13 hours ago, beekay414 said:

lol Trips just buried Austin Theory forever

Stop it, no he didnt

Theory shouldnt have been where he was in the first place, and wouldnt have been if it wasnt for Vince.

Theory is still a good prospect, but if they didnt have a plan for him to successfully cash in, then just drop it, because it could quickly turn into an anchor around his neck. 

If they felt like they could have built something around him still having it with the year running out, I would have enjoyed that, but with the rumor out there that the MITB ladder match might be coming back to WrestleMania and no longer its own PPV, you needed it to be gone before that time runs up.

[StLunatic88]

On 11/5/2022 at 11:57 PM, Dr LBC said:

The JAS is literally what it portends to be... it's the Chris Jericho show where Chris gets to play like he's one of the cool kids doing the stuff that got the Jacksons and others labeled as edgy and mavericks in the pre-AEW days (the "Cease and Desist" era and the t-shirt stuff), except Jericho has no sense for when to cut himself off.  Minard is the only palatable one to me in the group - and even then it's for the same reason why Santino Marella was entertaining to me... which has an expiration date.  Because it still keeps him in the forefront of the company, Jericho will keep doing this shtick even when we're at a year removed from Vince and "Sports Entertainment" being a thing, to the point that he'll basically be parodying himself - because he'll be trying to satirized a lack of logic in storytelling while refusing to let any sense of logic apply in his own stories (and "logic" being stuff that should be occurring, and that he's well aware should be occurring, but he strikes because he'd rather the stroking of his own ego).  I mean, if you're going to do a gimmick that's an end-around Vince satire, Chris, at least have the decency to tear both quads getting into the ring.

Per usual when we talk about this, I acknowledge you are correct on Jericho and the JAS as a whole.

I will say, up to this point, I think it has actually worked very well with the Ring of Jericho stuff. It feeds directly into what an anti ROH persona would be. I am just a bit confused and concerned about what they are looking to do with stuffing Sammy into this 4-way. Are we really going to try to turn him face? Thats not going to work, and their are plenty of other talents among the bloated roster that would better benefit that spot.

But maybe its nothing (for now) as they often dont seem to plan this out very well in AEW

[beekay414]

lol guys, I was being facetious

Was obviously intended for this version of Theory, not the wrestler himself.

[Dr LBC]

1 hour ago, StLunatic88 said:

Per usual when we talk about this, I acknowledge you are correct on Jericho and the JAS as a whole.

I will say, up to this point, I think it has actually worked very well with the Ring of Jericho stuff. It feeds directly into what an anti ROH persona would be. I am just a bit confused and concerned about what they are looking to do with stuffing Sammy into this 4-way. Are we really going to try to turn him face? Thats not going to work, and their are plenty of other talents among the bloated roster that would better benefit that spot.

But maybe its nothing (for now) as they often dont seem to plan this out very well in AEW

You're not wrong in your assessment.  They're making chicken salad from chicken yeah with the anti-ROH stuff, it's just not as original as I think a lot of marks want to make it out to be.  Well-executed, sure.  Original, hardly.

And yes, they're absolutely angling like they're trying to turn Sammy face even though he's an extremely unnatural babyface, quite the opposite - he has a face you want to slap and his backstage behavior makes him naturally unlikeable.  As much as Tony wants to put himself over as an old school ECW mark, Heyman had a strong feel for when to turn a guy and who could/should even be eligible for an alignment turn.  What Tony does, in execution, feel very much like Vince Russo on booger sugar; guys will get good slow-developing (largely because they are, wait for it, actually complex) heel character going, and Tony will flip them babyface for no discernible reason (which really makes no sense when you go with the insistence of the EVP's at the onset of AEW that "babyfaces and heels didn't matter" because people cheer them both).  Bryan had a fantastic complex heel persona going and they flipped him.  Ricky Starks' future has been, I'd contended, hamstrung by at least a year and a half because the "Booker of the Year" couldn't think of any other way to push Hobbs as a monster than to have him slip on Pretty Ricky.

I still stand by my initial assessment, and them having some success so far isn't mutually-exclusive from that assessment (both can be true), that Tony is a money mark getting worked by, largely, Jericho and the Bucks.  That's not to take a shot at the intelligence of Jericho, Matt or Nick - if anything it's actually complementary of it.  It takes at least a good level of intelligence to pull off that kind of manipulation.  No one ever said that carnies were idiots - just crooked.

[StLunatic88]

I mostly post about my ROH theories in here lately, and I have plenty more (I have full thoughts on what the roster split should look like, might post later), but I do still watch WWE as well.

The one thing I heard recently, and got excited about, was the SmackDown World Cup. But then I realized they are just going to half-*** it, making it a run of the mill 8 man tournament. And thats just so lazy, which makes sense as its likely something that FOX pushed to have for brand alignment or whatever 

But it got me thinking, how cool it could have been if they committed to this? If they did a real pod system, with points, and then moving on to a 16 man tournament, taking place, and culminating on SmackDown during the actual World Cup. The Tournament part could have been completed in 5 weeks of smackdown, I would push it further to 6 or 7. And then the Pool Matches could have taken place in the 2-3-4 weeks before that, just have them across Raw, SmackDown, Main Event, NXT, even House Shows that you still have. 

I would set the rules as such; 8 pods of 4 wrestlers each, which they all represent their Home countries, or some facsimile of (US-East, US-West, United Kingdom, Europe, Canada, Mexico/South America, Asia, Africa/Australia). Obviously every wrestler will have 3 matches in their pod each with a time limit (10 or 15 minutes), and points are scored as follows; 3 points for a clean win (pin, submission, KO, Count out, etc) 2 points for a draw (time limit, double count out, double KO), and then Finally only 1 point for a DQ win, as well as a corresponding -1 point for the DQ loss (trying to stop a heel from cheating). This would allow to separate the competitors with more than just wins and losses. The winners (most points, including tiebreakers) of each pod are the Top 8 seeds, and then the next 8 highest point scores will make up seeds 9-16.

I would run these as the 8 pods before the breakdown into the 16 man tournament;

United States (East)

-Rollins and Gargano move on with two wins a piece, we use the Ali/Stroman heat here when Stroman is out of contention, so then he takes the DQ on purpose so Ali cant get to 6 points a well, starting a feud there.

1. Seth Rollins Davenport, Iowa > 6 points
2. Johnny Gargano Cleveland, Ohio > 6 points
3. Mustafa Ali Chicago, Illinois > 4 points
4. Braun Stroman Sherills Ford, North Carolina > -1 point

United States (West)

-Pretty straight forward here, Knight and Riddle move on. Knight has to fight back after a surprising loss to Otis after some Gable shenanigans in his first match

1. LA Knight Los Angles, California > 6 points
2. Matt Riddle Las Vegas, Nevada > 6 points
3. Madcap Moss Minneapolis, Minnesota > 3 points
4. Otis Deluth, Minnesota > 3 points 

United Kingdom

-Another simple/straight forward pod, Butch actually takes two time-limit draws with Drew and Ridge. Bate gets the surprise win over Ridge when he has to travel to NXT to face him shortly after the Draw with Butch.

1. Drew McIntyre Ayr, Scottland > 8 points
2. Butch Birmingham, England > 7 points
3. Tyler Bate Dudley, England > 3 points
4. Ridge Holland Yorkshire, England > 2 points

Europe

-I like what Axiom could be, and he shows out well here even in 3 losses. Finn also has 2 draws, one time limit with Gunther, and one count out with Sheamus as they brawl too long on the outside. All top 3 guys make it through to the tournament.

1. Gunther Vienna, Austria > 8 points
2. Finn Balor Bray, Ireland > 7 points
3. Sheamus Dublin, Ireland > 5 points
4. Axiom Madrid, Spain > 0 points

Canada

-JBL "owns land" in Nova Scotia to sneak Corbin in here when he doesnt get in for the US spot. Owens dominates, Edge gets caught amongst the new gang warfare with Bloodline and JD who both take him out (one for a loss one for a DQ) and Sammy when hes out of contention, purposefully costs Corbin so he cant move on as a "Fake Canadian", and he gets a Bloodline beatdown for good measure

1. Kevin Owens Quebec, Canada > 9 points
2. Barron Corbin *Nova Scotia, Canada > 4 points
3. Edge Ontario, Canada > 1 point
4. Sami Zayn Quebec, Canada > -2 points

Mexico/South America

-Escobar gets caught cheating for the first DQ of the tournament vs Angle Garza, but fights his way back into contention. Rey gets a draw with the imposter Sin Cara, when he is too worried about unmasking him. And with the 3 way tie (even through tie breaks) they have a Triple Threat to crown the pool winner. Although they all make it through with 5 points each.

1. Rey Mysterio Tijuana, Mexico > 5 points
2. Santos Escobar Mexico City, Mexico > 5 points
3. Sin Cara* Juarez, Mexico > 5 points
4. Angel Garza Monterrey, Mexico > 1 point

Asia

-Shinsuke and Solo dominate, after starting this pool with a draw. Shinsuke wins the pool on the lowest combined time wrestling. The Jinder/Mansoor match doesnt factor in, so it really doesnt matter who gets the win there. (Ill alays take the opportunity to give the models an L)

1. Shinsuke Nakamura Kyoto, Japan > 8 points 
2. Solo Sikoa Samoan Islands > 8 points
3. Jinder Mahal Punjab, India > 3 points
4. Mansoor Riyadh, Saudi Arabia > 0 points

Africa/Austraila

-Waller gets a huge win over Omos to start the tournament, which then sets Omos off on a warpath. As he no longer cares about winning, he just destroys Apollo and Kofi for DQs. Waller's push is started here as he looks really good coming out of this pool as a top seed with 9 points

1. Grayson Waller Sydney, Australia > 9 points
2. Kofi Kingston Ghana, West Africa > 4 points
3. Apollo Crews Benue State, Nigeria > 1 point
4. Omos Lagos, Nigeria > -2 points

 

World Cup Tournament

There would be some fun stuff along the way amongst the 16 that make the tournament portion; Owens finally unmasks Chad Gable as the imposter Sin Cara, Mysterio is hobbled again by JD before losing to Solo, LA Knight and Waller run into each other in the Quarters, and Balor is using his JD advantage to make his way through the tournament. 

In the semi-finals, Kevin Owens takes on Gunther for one side of the bracket, which is a banger of a match that Owens grits one out. And in the other Waller is up against Balor and the JD that have been assisting this run. To even the sides, McIntyre and all the Brutes come to ringside to keep this match on the up and up, with Waller getting the surprise victory

In the end, Owens puts over Waller as the SmackDowd World Cup Champion. Its a great way to catapult Waller as one of the guys they really believe in, without having to slap a title on him (which are in short supply with Roman owning two of them) And Owens is a great guy to do it, who could likely give him the best match of his career so far. 

[StLunatic88]

Not sure why we needed that 8 man tag, but I like most of the participants 

I guess it was for that last shot in the ring with all gold being raised. 

I can already tell The Firm is going to be the next thing to really annoy me in wrestling 

Edited November 10, 2022 by StLunatic88

[StLunatic88]

God damn MJF is the real deal.

That promo was more than great, and the fact they went on PMT to do it is awesome. Can’t wait to listen to that whole interview. 

They better not mess this up

[Jeezla]

I like Ethan and Eddie, but that was not a crisp match. Eddie really should start taking better care of his body and try to improve his physique. He really does look like a jobber. Needs to hit the gym and get new ring gear.

Edited November 10, 2022 by Jeezla

[bcb1213]

19 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

I mostly post about my ROH theories in here lately, and I have plenty more (I have full thoughts on what the roster split should look like, might post later), but I do still watch WWE as well.

The one thing I heard recently, and got excited about, was the SmackDown World Cup. But then I realized they are just going to half-*** it, making it a run of the mill 8 man tournament. And thats just so lazy, which makes sense as its likely something that FOX pushed to have for brand alignment or whatever 

But it got me thinking, how cool it could have been if they committed to this? If they did a real pod system, with points, and then moving on to a 16 man tournament, taking place, and culminating on SmackDown during the actual World Cup. The Tournament part could have been completed in 5 weeks of smackdown, I would push it further to 6 or 7. And then the Pool Matches could have taken place in the 2-3-4 weeks before that, just have them across Raw, SmackDown, Main Event, NXT, even House Shows that you still have. 

I would set the rules as such; 8 pods of 4 wrestlers each, which they all represent their Home countries, or some facsimile of (US-East, US-West, United Kingdom, Europe, Canada, Mexico/South America, Asia, Africa/Australia). Obviously every wrestler will have 3 matches in their pod each with a time limit (10 or 15 minutes), and points are scored as follows; 3 points for a clean win (pin, submission, KO, Count out, etc) 2 points for a draw (time limit, double count out, double KO), and then Finally only 1 point for a DQ win, as well as a corresponding -1 point for the DQ loss (trying to stop a heel from cheating). This would allow to separate the competitors with more than just wins and losses. The winners (most points, including tiebreakers) of each pod are the Top 8 seeds, and then the next 8 highest point scores will make up seeds 9-16.

I would run these as the 8 pods before the breakdown into the 16 man tournament;

United States (East)

-Rollins and Gargano move on with two wins a piece, we use the Ali/Stroman heat here when Stroman is out of contention, so then he takes the DQ on purpose so Ali cant get to 6 points a well, starting a feud there.

1. Seth Rollins Davenport, Iowa > 6 points
2. Johnny Gargano Cleveland, Ohio > 6 points
3. Mustafa Ali Chicago, Illinois > 4 points
4. Braun Stroman Sherills Ford, North Carolina > -1 point

United States (West)

-Pretty straight forward here, Knight and Riddle move on. Knight has to fight back after a surprising loss to Otis after some Gable shenanigans in his first match

1. LA Knight Los Angles, California > 6 points
2. Matt Riddle Las Vegas, Nevada > 6 points
3. Madcap Moss Minneapolis, Minnesota > 3 points
4. Otis Deluth, Minnesota > 3 points 

United Kingdom

-Another simple/straight forward pod, Butch actually takes two time-limit draws with Drew and Ridge. Bate gets the surprise win over Ridge when he has to travel to NXT to face him shortly after the Draw with Butch.

1. Drew McIntyre Ayr, Scottland > 8 points
2. Butch Birmingham, England > 7 points
3. Tyler Bate Dudley, England > 3 points
4. Ridge Holland Yorkshire, England > 2 points

Europe

-I like what Axiom could be, and he shows out well here even in 3 losses. Finn also has 2 draws, one time limit with Gunther, and one count out with Sheamus as they brawl too long on the outside. All top 3 guys make it through to the tournament.

1. Gunther Vienna, Austria > 8 points
2. Finn Balor Bray, Ireland > 7 points
3. Sheamus Dublin, Ireland > 5 points
4. Axiom Madrid, Spain > 0 points

Canada

-JBL "owns land" in Nova Scotia to sneak Corbin in here when he doesnt get in for the US spot. Owens dominates, Edge gets caught amongst the new gang warfare with Bloodline and JD who both take him out (one for a loss one for a DQ) and Sammy when hes out of contention, purposefully costs Corbin so he cant move on as a "Fake Canadian", and he gets a Bloodline beatdown for good measure

1. Kevin Owens Quebec, Canada > 9 points
2. Barron Corbin *Nova Scotia, Canada > 4 points
3. Edge Ontario, Canada > 1 point
4. Sami Zayn Quebec, Canada > -2 points

Mexico/South America

-Escobar gets caught cheating for the first DQ of the tournament vs Angle Garza, but fights his way back into contention. Rey gets a draw with the imposter Sin Cara, when he is too worried about unmasking him. And with the 3 way tie (even through tie breaks) they have a Triple Threat to crown the pool winner. Although they all make it through with 5 points each.

1. Rey Mysterio Tijuana, Mexico > 5 points
2. Santos Escobar Mexico City, Mexico > 5 points
3. Sin Cara* Juarez, Mexico > 5 points
4. Angel Garza Monterrey, Mexico > 1 point

Asia

-Shinsuke and Solo dominate, after starting this pool with a draw. Shinsuke wins the pool on the lowest combined time wrestling. The Jinder/Mansoor match doesnt factor in, so it really doesnt matter who gets the win there. (Ill alays take the opportunity to give the models an L)

1. Shinsuke Nakamura Kyoto, Japan > 8 points 
2. Solo Sikoa Samoan Islands > 8 points
3. Jinder Mahal Punjab, India > 3 points
4. Mansoor Riyadh, Saudi Arabia > 0 points

Africa/Austraila

-Waller gets a huge win over Omos to start the tournament, which then sets Omos off on a warpath. As he no longer cares about winning, he just destroys Apollo and Kofi for DQs. Waller's push is started here as he looks really good coming out of this pool as a top seed with 9 points

1. Grayson Waller Sydney, Australia > 9 points
2. Kofi Kingston Ghana, West Africa > 4 points
3. Apollo Crews Benue State, Nigeria > 1 point
4. Omos Lagos, Nigeria > -2 points

 

World Cup Tournament

There would be some fun stuff along the way amongst the 16 that make the tournament portion; Owens finally unmasks Chad Gable as the imposter Sin Cara, Mysterio is hobbled again by JD before losing to S

 

In the semi-finals, Kevin Owens takes on Gunther for one side of the bracket, which is a banger of a match that Owens grits one out. And in the other Waller is up against Balor and the JD that have been assisting this run. To even the sides, McIntyre and all the Brutes come to ringside to keep this match on the up and up, with Waller getting the surprise victory

In the end, Owens puts over Waller as the SmackDowd World Cup Champion. Its a great way to catapult Waller as one of the guys they really believe in, without having to slap a title on him (which are in short supply with Roman owning two of them) And Owens is a great guy to do it, who could likely give him the best match of his career so far. 

The former Geography teacher in me thinks it makes more sense to have a pacific division and put mansoor in with the aftrica and waller in with Asia, but that's splitting hairs

Also would be a helluva way to introduce Gabe Stevenson if he's ready.  I imagine they'd want to make this as legit with amateur wreslters as possible.  If we were going to use your breakdown, i'd do this noting I'm not putting any current champion in the tourney

East

Priest

Strowman

Shelton Benjamin

Styles

 

Midwest

Lesner

Stevenson

Gable

Ziggler

 

West

Lashley

Riddle

Mysterio

LA Knight

 

Canada

Owens

Zayn

Roode

Edge

 

Pacific

Nakamura

Mahal

Waller

Veer

 

England

Butch

Ridge Holland

Bate

Charlie Dempsey

 

Europe

Finn

Sheamus

Vinci

Drew

 

Africa

Kofi

Omos

Apollo

Azeez i guess