Cearbhall Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 54 minutes ago, PrplChilPill said: Yes, the game has changed in forty years. It's hard to fathom people think a weak armed QB could be successful in the long run with these athletes. Is it hard to fathom? Tom Brady still plays and is doing just fine. Drew Brees was doing just fine until his injury a couple weeks ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 Tom Brady has a weak arm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torchezim Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 (edited) Who would mortgage their future draft(s) and choose to let go of a couple players (if necessary) for Lawrence? If we ride it out with Cousin’s contract and he does what he does and we miss the playoffs, and plays just level enough to put us in terrible position for like the 15th - 19th pick. I would pull a Ditka and trade my first 3 or 4 picks in my next two drafts (more if necessary), along with anyone not named Hunter. Even as an armchair talent evaluator, I am 100% sold already on that guy. I feel better about him than I did Andrew Luck and that is saying something; mortgage everything you need to to get the right pick. I couldn’t bare watching him perform on a team like the Raiders, Bengals, Titans, Buccaneers, Lions, Broncos or Colts (they need to have a few struggle years without landing a once in a generation talent). I do know however that if this front office is in charge, they would never pull the trigger on such a deal. Edited September 26, 2019 by Torchezim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 1 hour ago, JDBrocks said: Tom Brady has a weak arm? Tom Brady never had a cannon for an arm. He has always lacked a really strong arm. I have never bought into the narrative that was being pushed that he has a noodle arm by this point in his career, but his arm strength was always unspectacular and he is into his 40s now. Arm strength is one of the reasons Brady wasn't drafted until the 6th round. But, no, I wouldn't call his arm weak. He has done just fine without a spectacular arm though. I do not believe that Mr @Virginia Viking was ever trying to say that a QB could be successful with a weak arm. An average arm with accuracy is more than sufficient. On the other hand, it is mind blowing that a team would draft a QB in the first round that has an arm like Christian Ponder. That was an egregious example if ignoring arm strength. It does need to surpass a certain threshold, but after that there are other things that are more important than having a really strong arm. It is fair to scratch any QB off the draft board with no further questions asked if they can't achieve a better velocity on their passes than Ponder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VikeManDan Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Torchezim said: Who would mortgage their future draft(s) and choose to let go of a couple players (if necessary) for Lawrence? If we ride it out with Cousin’s contract and he does what he does and we miss the playoffs, and plays just level enough to put us in terrible position for like the 15th - 19th pick. I would pull a Ditka and trade my first 3 or 4 picks in my next two drafts (more if necessary), along with anyone not named Hunter. I would probably pull the Ditka and do something along those lines to secure #1 overall. I'd probably do what I mentioned on the previous page to secure 3 1st rounders (2 in 2021 and 1 in 2021 as a starting point) I'd also add Hughes, Harry, O'Neill, Bradbury, Thielen, and Diggs to the no-trade list. However, I could be talked into Thielen or Diggs if they absolutely demanded it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 42 minutes ago, VikeManDan said: I would probably pull the Ditka and do something along those lines to secure #1 overall. I'd probably do what I mentioned on the previous page to secure 3 1st rounders (2 in 2021 and 1 in 2021 as a starting point) I'd also add Hughes, Harry, O'Neill, Bradbury, Thielen, and Diggs to the no-trade list. However, I could be talked into Thielen or Diggs if they absolutely demanded it. I haven't watched the fellow play so I can't comment too specifically on what I would give up for Lawrence. However, an elite NFL QB is easily worth 3 first round picks IMO. If he is that, I would have no problem with trading away a package of three first rounders. I don't know what the probability is that Lawrence will become an elite QB. Nobody is a sure thing. Based on what I have read, I tend to agree that trading up would not be possible. A team that wants him will have to make sure to have the worst record in the league next year. Miami may be going to back to back worst records; we've never seen such a blatant tank job before -- not even the Suck for Luck year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VikeManDan Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 9 minutes ago, Cearbhall said: Miami may be going to back to back worst records; we've never seen such a blatant tank job before -- not even the Suck for Luck year. They might but I think they're tanking for Tua. If Tua were to get hurt in 2020 NFL season they could go back to back but I don't think they'd take Lawrence. Devil's advocate: If any teams young 1st contract QB (Jones, Haskins, Tua, Watson, Mahomes and obviously forgetting some) gets hurt and they end up with #1 would be the only scenario I could see the #1 overall being traded. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikesfan89 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 (edited) What if there is a QB that would go number 1 in most drafts also available. If a team could move up to get the 2nd pick to trade to move up to number 1 wouldn't the number 1 team consider it? A couple extra first round picks could go a long ways toward building a team around a still pretty good QB prospect Edited September 26, 2019 by vikesfan89 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Cearbhall said: Tom Brady never had a cannon for an arm. He has always lacked a really strong arm. I have never bought into the narrative that was being pushed that he has a noodle arm by this point in his career, but his arm strength was always unspectacular and he is into his 40s now. Arm strength is one of the reasons Brady wasn't drafted until the 6th round. But, no, I wouldn't call his arm weak. He has done just fine without a spectacular arm though. I do not believe that Mr @Virginia Viking was ever trying to say that a QB could be successful with a weak arm. An average arm with accuracy is more than sufficient. On the other hand, it is mind blowing that a team would draft a QB in the first round that has an arm like Christian Ponder. That was an egregious example if ignoring arm strength. It does need to surpass a certain threshold, but after that there are other things that are more important than having a really strong arm. It is fair to scratch any QB off the draft board with no further questions asked if they can't achieve a better velocity on their passes than Ponder. I agree with you on Brady - I think he has always had an average to above average arm in the NFL. I also agree that there is a minimum threshold for arm strength in the NFL. I will say that having a rocket arm can cover up a lot of deficiencies, and is what makes special QBs special in most cases. Mahomes would not be who he is without a cannon, and those spectacular plays wouldn't happen. I want a QB with the physical tools the next time the Vikings draft one. I'm tired of the "Smart, Pro-Ready, Leadership" QBs. Give me a Lamar Jackson or a Patrick Mahomes type that has a physical skill that sets him apart and let the coaches earn their paychecks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikesfan89 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 Tarvaris Jackson had all of the physical tools. I agree for the most part thought. They also have to be able to learn the mental side of things. That's probably not as easy to scout for though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Plissken Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 8 minutes ago, vikesfan89 said: Tarvaris Jackson had all of the physical tools. I agree for the most part thought. They also have to be able to learn the mental side of things. That's probably not as easy to scout for though I would also add that the QB needs to have that drive and commitment to get better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 4 hours ago, PrplChilPill said: Yes, the game has changed in forty years. It's hard to fathom people think a weak armed QB could be successful in the long run with these athletes. I invite you to read my post again. I am not talking about a weak armed QB. I am thinking that accuracy and football intelligence, helps to compensate for those QB's who don't have bazookas as appendages. Would you rather have Jamarcus Russell (maybe the strongest armed QB ever) or Drew Brees (adequate arm strength but football intelligence out the roof)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 2 hours ago, VikeManDan said: I would probably pull the Ditka and do something along those lines to secure #1 overall. I'd probably do what I mentioned on the previous page to secure 3 1st rounders (2 in 2021 and 1 in 2021 as a starting point) I'd also add Hughes, Harry, O'Neill, Bradbury, Thielen, and Diggs to the no-trade list. However, I could be talked into Thielen or Diggs if they absolutely demanded it. And I would suspect that you'd get the same results that Ditka did. Giving over an entire draft for one player? I think that would unadvisable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Virginia Viking said: And I would suspect that you'd get the same results that Ditka did. Giving over an entire draft for one player? I think that would unadvisable. For a RB that had availability issues, yes. For a franchise QB, perhaps once in a decade type prospect as well. You make that trade and hope to have a franchise QB for the next 10-15 years. Edited September 26, 2019 by vikingsrule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 (edited) 55 minutes ago, JDBrocks said: I agree with you on Brady - I think he has always had an average to above average arm in the NFL. I also agree that there is a minimum threshold for arm strength in the NFL. I will say that having a rocket arm can cover up a lot of deficiencies, and is what makes special QBs special in most cases. Mahomes would not be who he is without a cannon, and those spectacular plays wouldn't happen. I want a QB with the physical tools the next time the Vikings draft one. I'm tired of the "Smart, Pro-Ready, Leadership" QBs. Give me a Lamar Jackson or a Patrick Mahomes type that has a physical skill that sets him apart and let the coaches earn their paychecks. Yeah. Me too. Only problem is that most of those guys are off the board by the time we get around to drafting. I want a guy who's smart, accurate, strong armed, and a great athlete. That's my ideal. Unfortunately, they don't come around very often. Edited September 26, 2019 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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