beekay414 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, NYRaider said: At bare minimum he's a supercharged Shawn Marion. Bare minimum, he's a defensive role player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amac Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, showtime said: When he played last season, they made it to the second round of the playoffs and lost to the Warriors. Everyone loses to the Warriors. How is that not competing? It's not like the Pelicans were a bottom dwelling team with him last year. They were disappointing this year and then Davis missed 25 games. Not competing is the Phoenix Suns. The Pelicans were a postseason team last year. It's not as if we were pinching pennies and not making an effort. The Boogie injury threw a monkey wrench into everything, as did earlier injury problems with Eric Gordon (a trade our GM didn't actually want) and Jrue Holiday. Demps handed out some bad contracts but I"m confident we would have had more playoff appearances if those guys could have stayed healthy. Edited May 15, 2019 by amac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavensTillIDie Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 6 minutes ago, beekay414 said: Because no prospect's bare minimum is a 20/10 all star. They also don't play anything alike. Sorry, I didn't necessarily mean in terms of numbers. Rather I was speaking to the their playing style and highlight reel plays, which IMO are highly similar. Not sure I understand how you can say they don't play anything alike - unless you're talking about Kemp not playing out on the perimeter like Zion is capable of doing, which is fair but undercuts the larger point in the comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartica4Real Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 10 minutes ago, champ11 said: They made the playoffs twice in seven years. They had a worse record over that time than the charlotte hornets. They also had a fake GM structure (a football dude ran it), a terrible training staff, and the worst wing rotation in the NBA. They blew it. It looks like they are changing things, and kudos to them, but they absolutely blew it. One playoff series win doesn't change that. This is the fairest take I've seen here. The Pels absolutely blew it during AD's tenure. But that was also a completely different FO, Mickey Loomis from the Saints was running it and then he stepped back and Dell Demps didn't do much better. They hired David Griffin as EVP, let him bring in his own FO. Gayle Benson has been pumping money into new facilities for the team. This isn't the Pels that wasted AD, literally everyone is new. The owner, FO, coaching staff, etc are all different from the one that drafted AD. They shouldn't be preemptively judged as wasting Zion when we have no idea how this FO will do. Hell, they're actually off to a great start to a rebuild with Zion and Jrue/AD/whatever trade packages you get for one or both of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showtime Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 5 minutes ago, amac said: It's not as if we were pinching pennies and not making an effort. The Boogie injury threw a monkey wrench into everything, as did earlier injury problems with Eric Gordon (a trade our GM didn't actually want) and Jrue Holiday. Demps handed out some bad contracts but I"m confident we would have had more playoff appearances if those guys could have stayed healthy. I agree 100%. A lot of unfortunate things have happened, but it's not all the franchise's fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, RavensTillIDie said: Sorry, I didn't necessarily mean in terms of numbers. Rather I was speaking to the their playing style and highlight reel plays, which IMO are highly similar. Not sure I understand how you can say they don't play anything alike. Outside of jumping high and dunking, they don't. It's like saying Giannis and Shaq play the same because they both physically dominate and dunk a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 7 minutes ago, Spartica4Real said: This is the fairest take I've seen here. The Pels absolutely blew it during AD's tenure. But that was also a completely different FO, Mickey Loomis from the Saints was running it and then he stepped back and Dell Demps didn't do much better. They hired David Griffin as EVP, let him bring in his own FO. Gayle Benson has been pumping money into new facilities for the team. This isn't the Pels that wasted AD, literally everyone is new. The owner, FO, coaching staff, etc are all different from the one that drafted AD. They shouldn't be preemptively judged as wasting Zion when we have no idea how this FO will do. Hell, they're actually off to a great start to a rebuild with Zion and Jrue/AD/whatever trade packages you get for one or both of them. Yeah I think the most damning thing was the organizational infrastructure. Some of the moves were good in a vacuum, but they clearly didn't take building the basketball team seriously with how the infrastructure played out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, showtime said: They made it to the second round of the playoffs last year and lost to the Warriors. 2 winning records in 7 years. Multiple bad, short-sighted moves in both free agency and trades by the front office. Yes, they had a decent season last year, but what about this year? The inconsistency can be frustrating and weigh on a player. It is a new from office, but run by an owner and GM who give no ****s except for not to lose money and make the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavensTillIDie Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, beekay414 said: Outside of jumping high and dunking, they don't. It's like saying Giannis and Shaq play the same because they both physically dominate and dunk a lot. See my update to the previous post. Stylistically and from an athleticism/entertainment perspective I think they are very similar players, but you're right that they have different roles on the court and so that's probably where the comparison ends. But to my original point, at a bare minimum if all the Pels get is a high character version of Shawn Kemp from an entertainment perspective, that alone is worth it for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 13 minutes ago, showtime said: So two years ago when Davis played in 75 games and the Pelicans didn't make the playoffs... that's the franchise's fault entirely? Why wasn't Davis able to will his team to the postseason.... other players who are deemed elite are able to do that on a consistent basis. Why can't he? No player can do that with ANY team. Kobe couldn't, LeBron couldn't, KG couldn't, etc. You need help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showtime Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 I'm going to keep it a buck right now. Look at the Rockets roster when they acquired James Harden. The guy gets them to the freaking playoffs every year. I don't want to hear it. Anthony Davis can't do that because he's nowhere near the player than James Harden is. Look at how Kawhi Leonard has completely transformed this Raptors team... the same team that has failed year after year and was a treadmill team. Davis nowhere near the player Leonard is. Anthony Davis is more close to Kyrie Irving as a player than he is to Leonard or Harden. So yes, the Pelicans haven't made the greatest decisions ever and they do deserve blame. But wasting Davis' career? If Davis was really an MVP caliber player (which he's not), he would have uplifted this team over the years consistently. You talk about guys like LeBron, Durant, Leonard, Harden, Giannis. Those are TRUE elite and MVP type players. I've gained a ton of respect for Jokic and Lillard. Anthony Davis? Yea he needs to go run along and be LeBron's, Durant's or someone else's side kick. Just like Kyrie Irving needs to do. So to go back to the original comment - I don't think Zion should try and strong arm his way out of New Orleans. He needs to go there, play his arse off and be as great as he can be. If he's a great as advertised, the Pelicans will be a postseason team every year - something they hardly ever were with Davis. That's the last I'm going to say about this part of the conversation. Hot take done lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 17 minutes ago, showtime said: So two years ago when Davis played in 75 games and the Pelicans didn't make the playoffs... that's the franchise's fault entirely? Why wasn't Davis able to will his team to the postseason.... other players who are deemed elite are able to do that on a consistent basis. Why can't he? Success is organizational. You need excellence or attempted excellence from top to bottom. It's absurd to assume one player could overcome organization incompetence or indifference. I just looked at that team on bball reference and good god it was horrible. The top 7 players on that team minutes wise: AD, Solomon Hill, Jrue Holiday, Etwaun Moore, Dante Cunningham, Time Frazier, Terrence Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11sanchez11 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 18 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Davis just demanded a trade to a bigger market team No he didn't. He asked to be traded. He didn't ask to go to LA, NY, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 8 minutes ago, showtime said: I'm going to keep it a buck right now. Look at the Rockets roster when they acquired James Harden. The guy gets them to the freaking playoffs every year. I don't want to hear it. Anthony Davis can't do that because he's nowhere near the player than James Harden is. Look at how Kawhi Leonard has completely transformed this Raptors team... the same team that has failed year after year and was a treadmill team. Davis nowhere near the player Leonard is. Anthony Davis is more close to Kyrie Irving as a player than he is to Leonard or Harden. So yes, the Pelicans haven't made the greatest decisions ever and they do deserve blame. But wasting Davis' career? If Davis was really and MVP caliber player (which he's not), he would have uplifted this team over the years consistently. You talk about guys like LeBron, Durant, Leonard, Harden, Giannis. Those are TRUE elite and MVP type players. I've gained a ton of respect for Jokic and Lillard. Anthony Davis? Yea he needs to go run along and be LeBron's, Durant's or someone else's side kick. Just like Kyrie Irving needs to do. So to go back to the original comment - I don't think Zion should try and strong arm his way out of New Orleans. He needs to go there, play his arse off and be as great as he can be. If he's a great as advertised, the Pelicans will be a postseason team every year - something they hardly ever were with Davis. That's the last I'm going to say about this part of the conversation. I actually agree the Davis would be best as a secondary player on a team. That team would be a championship level team because he is that good. The MVP guys you listed are offense instigators. That's not Davis. Nothing against him but he's just more of a finisher and his game doesn't lead to carrying a team by himself. That team last year was good bc Jrue was also playing at an all-nba level. Doesn't change the fact that the Pellies totally blew building around a generational talent but I see what you're getting at. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11sanchez11 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 (edited) I'm also on team Anthony Davis is overrated as a #1 option option. Which kinds means you can't be a top 5 guy. Edited May 15, 2019 by 11sanchez11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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