TVScout Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 21 hours ago, SBLIII said: this year 2019 last year 2018 I hate the over use of pronouns because of the confusion such words cause. At this point I also hate the use of vague adjectives for the same reason. From here forward I think we should use numerical dates when referring to seasons. Agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Superman(DH23) said: How old are you, just curious? Warren Moon is in bc of his entire professional career. Moon had himself a helluva career in Canada before he ever stepped foot in the NFL, when you look at the whole picture with him, its pretty clear he totally belongs. I agree, Moon was a man amongst boys in Canada, but the NFL is the pinnacle of professional football. In regards to the Hall of Fame, what he did in Canada is about as relevant as what he did in college, IMO. As an NFL QB, Moon was very good, but not great. He put up some nice numbers, and had a couple insane statistical seasons, but IMO his playoff record hurts, and frankly, he turned the ball over way too much to ever be considered great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 (edited) Elway-Heavily overrated as an all time great. Had easy roads in the playoffs early only to get destroyed in Super Bowl's. Undeserved MVP. Late career resurgence but was never anything special statistically. Aikman-Not a HoF caliber player in the slightest. Namath-Super Bowl gave him a much better legacy. Edited June 6, 2019 by Bullet Club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 8 hours ago, Pugger said: Good question! Elway might have won those Super Bowls too because those teams were so good on both sides of the ball. Elway didn't win one until he had a great running game. But we'll never know... That's the thing. The rise of Brady now has a lot of people moving Momtana down to, like, top three status. I'm more of a top ten or top twenty grader on him now, myself. He had John Taylor to throw to for some years, too. And he was probably the second best WR in the league at that time. Top five, for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVScout Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 17 hours ago, Heinz D. said: He had John Taylor to throw to for some years, too. And he was probably the second best WR in the league at that time. IDTS. 49ers were #9 in YpA in passing. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1988/index.htm#all_passing He put up some impressive stats but was by no means better then the likes of Al Toon or Art Monk. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Taylor_(American_football) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_1980s_All-Decade_Team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chargers Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 On 6/6/2019 at 3:46 PM, Heinz D. said: That's the thing. The rise of Brady now has a lot of people moving Momtana down to, like, top three status. I'm more of a top ten or top twenty grader on him now, myself. He had John Taylor to throw to for some years, too. And he was probably the second best WR in the league at that time. Top five, for sure. Who are the 9 better Quarterbacks than Joe Montana if you have him at TEN all time? lol at the thought of Joe being the 20th best ever. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBLIII Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 14 hours ago, Classic said: Who are the 9 better Quarterbacks than Joe Montana if you have him at TEN all time? lol at the thought of Joe being the 20th best ever. I can't find 3 better ones. I have Manning slightly ahead of Montana but the 4th best is far away from Montana imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 This board is exposing itself alot here. Joe Namath is constantly referred to as a nobody as a one hit wonder. So I don't know how he's overrated. But lets actually look at some information. Joe Namath: -First QB in history to break 4000 yards. -2x AFL MVP (this was when the AFL was a legitimate alternative to the NFL) -1x First Team All AFL -3x Second Team All AFL -2nd Team All Pro -2x passing yards leader in the AFL -1x passing yards leader in the NFL -1x passing TD leader in the NFL. -Was definitley one of the two best AFL QB's of all time with Len Dawson being his only rival for best. -Was definitley viewed as top 5 of his era mid 60's to mid 70's along with Starr, Unitas, and Dawson. -Super Bowl champion Here's the reality, most people who never watched the man play or didn't bother to put in the proper research judge him strictly off his NFL accolades the majority of which he played later in his career after a serious injury he never should have came back from. His AFL accolades get completely neglected. He mostly gets his post injury years held against him without people understanding how good he actually was because most fans don't know how to do much besides fetishize stats when it comes to judging players they didn't see to make their opinion. So not only is he constantly trashed by people who don't know enough, he gets called overrated to add insult to injury. Terry Bradshaw is similar. People ignore how well he played in the playoffs for his era. Only Starr was an outright better playoff performer at the time and he retired one year after Terry debuted. Bradshaw had the highest passer rating of his era for the playoffs, is still top 10 in playoff TD's (he's also the oldest on that list with Joe Montana and Marino being the next oldest and everyone else having played at a minimum in the late 2000's). He was money when it mattered and the Steelers needed him for that to actually be a dynasty. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
game3525 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Yeah, both Namath and Bradshaw are underrated. People look at the raw numbers, but the late 60s and 70s was the dead ball era. When you adjust their numbers to the era, they are clearcut top 5 QBs of their generation and deserve to be in the HOF. The answer to the question is Elway. He really didn't become a top level QB till the mid 90s. He had been the league for well over a decade by then. Great player and I don't have a problem with him in the HOF, but he isn't a top 10 QB of all-time like many casual fans think he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 (edited) On 6/4/2019 at 9:31 AM, Spartacus said: Brady has had more competent defenses in 1/4 of his career then AR or Brees has had in their entire careers. In yet.... In 2014 the Packers got 6 turnovers on the Seahawks in the NFCCG and they were unable to punch it in early which led to the door being open for the comeback. But everyone gives Rodgers a pass for that game when in a year we had 5 regular season INT all year he had 2INTin that game, a 55% completion percentage and a 55.8 passer rating. But people act like he got screwed out of that game. Meawhile two weeks later Brady played that exact same team had 4TD to make up for the same 2INT (Rodgers only had one), a 74% completion percentage, and a 101 passer rating. But while Rodgers gets defended in a game where his defense got 6 turnovers for him, people love to pretend that Brady after having matched the record for biggest Super Bowl comeback of all time shouldn't get credit because his defense got it's lone turnover at the end of the game after they almost blew it . In 2016 when Brady's team was down 28-3 going into the 4th he was able to make a comeback and win it for his team with 3 back to back to back TD drives in the 4th and overtime. Meanwhile when Rodgers team started getting blown out two weeks earlier he kept getting blown out. A big part of that was that Brady was just more efficient and stayed on the field longer. Had 200 more yards than Rodgers, had a 69.4% completion percentage compared to Rodgers 60% (and Brady attempted 62 passes to Rodgers 45) had a 95 passer rating to Rodgers 91, had a 7.5 average compared to Rodgers 6.4. Now I'll grant you a lot of luck went into that win, but the fact of the matter is Brady played better, controlled time of possession more, attempted more passes and shouldered a larger burden, in yet far more people give Rodgers a pass for his defense on that effort. The reality is, if Rodgers played like Brady played against those teams, good chance he's in two more Super Bowls. Not to say that Rodgers had better defenses than Brady more frequently, but Rodgers is currently in his 11th year as a starter and he could have as many Super Bowls as Brady did in his 11th year as a starter if he played better more like Brady against those two teams. Edited June 9, 2019 by lancerman 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 29 minutes ago, game3525 said: Yeah, both Namath and Bradshaw are underrated. People look at the raw numbers, but the late 60s and 70s was the dead ball era. When you adjust their numbers to the era, they are clearcut top 5 QBs of their generation and deserve to be in the HOF. The answer to the question is Elway. He really didn't become a top level QB till the mid 90s. He had been the league for well over a decade by then. Great player and I don't have a problem with him in the HOF, but he isn't a top 10 QB of all-time like many casual fans think he is. I agree, to me the answer is Elway too. He's a bit better than his stats show but he's also not as great as his accolades and his myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LieutenantGains Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 10 hours ago, SBLIII said: I can't find 3 better ones. I have Manning slightly ahead of Montana but the 4th best is far away from Montana imo. We should start a poll on whether people think Manning or Montana is the 2nd greatest QB ever. Curious to see the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullsandBroncos Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 I get the Elway chatter, but the teams he lost to were loaded. Those teams were in the super bowl because of him, not in spite of him. The 1989 49ers are #1 all time. 1986 Giants defense was disgusting. Doug Williams had the game of his career. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVScout Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 16 hours ago, BullsandBroncos said: Doug Williams had the game of his career. Elway's receivers must have dropped 3 TD's worth of passes in that game. Bronco's defense took the pipe too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bad Example Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 On 6/1/2019 at 12:07 PM, Thomas5737 said: Elway was a top 3 QB in the league for most of his career and his late SB runs vaulted him into an all time discussion. He isn't in my top 10 but he is only overrated by the people that put him insanely high on lists. Stats don't tell his story, he was special he just wasn't ever up there with Marino/Montana in his era so he shouldn't be in discussion as the best ever because he wasn't a candidate for best in his era. Still an all time great. Probably comparable (in being listed, not as QBs) to Roethlisberger or Rivers from this era. I think the argument that "Davis and the defense carried him to SB wins" is fair; however it overlooks that Elway carried that entire franchise to the 3 SB losses. I mean, c'mon, there was decent defensive talent there, sure, but he had NOTHING around him on offense in 86, 87, and 89 - Sammy Winder? Vance Johnson? Ugh. Those were 8-8 teams. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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