Official 2020 WR Thread

[MrOaktown_56]

2 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

I have two big issues. I can't agree that Reagor has a high floor (we've already debated over speed).

I also disagree with some of what you said about Mims. I don't think he's an elite contested catch guy. And he doesn't show nuance at the top of the route. He's not a polished route runner. He has a lot of the same issues you see from many guys in college. His route tempo can give hints to his depth. He doesn't plant and explode. He rolls into his cuts. He opens his hips prematurely because his footwork is all over the place. He gets beat up too easily by press coverage. I don't want this to make it seem like I don't like Mims. From the traits standpoint, he has it all, except explosive acceleration imo. He's long/strong and has flashed a willingness to use his size to create separation. He's a strider who can separate vertically. He has the quickness to run routes well. His game simply isn't polished. You're taking a risk, but if his game develops, you have a guy with the traits to be a force.

I've seen some nice things at the top of routes from Mims. I also did say that he has a lot of room to grow in terms of polish. I think he's definitely team dependent. You have to have coaching and a plan for him to allow him to hit his ceiling.

As far as Reagor, you'll have to trust me on that one :).

[jrry32]

1 minute ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I've seen some nice things at the top of routes from Mims. I also did say that he has a lot of room to grow in terms of polish. I think he's definitely team dependent. You have to have coaching and a plan for him to allow him to hit his ceiling.

As far as Reagor, you'll have to trust me on that one :).

Could you point me to the game if you recall?

[Chrissooner49er]

15 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Could you point me to the game if you recall?

Most point to the Senior Bowl to say he does have more routes to him. *shrugs*

We know the games don't show it! 

[MrOaktown_56]

22 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Could you point me to the game if you recall?

I'd have to go back individually. I've seen him show some deception with getting corners turned around by threatening them vertically then running a nice deep curl. That play is not in here.

On a play  vs UTSA in here (:44) I see him attack inside leverage before breaking outside. The DB trips, but the execution shows potential.

Also I'm not a fan of highlights but I don't have good cutups for Mims.

 

The thing is, some of his routes in here, like double moves are mechanical. He doesn't use his head and shoulders to sell every route. But the fact that he's still so successful shows me the potential he has once he gets with a good coach who shows him how to become a technician to go with his physical gifts.

And he has good hip flexibility so I know he has the ability to run a route tree.

Normally I'm not a fan of "project" guys, but Mims is an easy project to finish for me. You get him a good coach and watch him take off.

[goldfishwars]

11 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said:

Most point to the Senior Bowl to say he does have more routes to him. *shrugs*

We know the games don't show it! 

The Senior Bowl showed there's more nuance and route quickness to his game than you see on his tape, but he's not coming into the league with a high floor. The way he rapidly improved there showed he's a quick learner and responds well to better coaching. 

 

[jrry32]

8 minutes ago, goldfishwars said:

The Senior Bowl showed there's more nuance and route quickness to his game than you see on his tape, but he's not coming into the league with a high floor. The way he rapidly improved there showed he's a quick learner and responds well to better coaching. 

 

What I liked more from that is the physicality. The routes by and large weren't polished. The other big thing to keep in mind with the Senior Bowl is that those drills favor the WR by design. The CB is on an island, and the WR has a two-way go with no pass rush. But yes, the Senior Bowl certainly helps his stock, but for me, it's more because of the physicality than the sharpness of the routes.

[goldfishwars]

9 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

What I liked more from that is the physicality. The routes by and large weren't polished. The other big thing to keep in mind with the Senior Bowl is that those drills favor the WR by design. The CB is on an island, and the WR has a two-way go with no pass rush. But yes, the Senior Bowl certainly helps his stock, but for me, it's more because of the physicality than the sharpness of the routes.

Favors the receivers for sure but he was beating guys in 1 on 1s at a much higher rate than his counterparts. The defensive backs had a pretty dominant week outside of Mims. Not always razor sharp and clean, but the foot quickness is there for a big guy and my dude is twisting his man up a little more than once. He's not afraid to mix it up and play to his size advantage though that's for sure. Beautiful catch over his shoulder, tracking is impressive. 

I'm not taking him if I need someone to slot right in and contribute now. I'd be weary if I were the Vikings, say. The ceiling is high, but it'll take some time. 

[goldfishwars]

Man, he was more dominant than I remembered....

 

[Chiefer]

3 minutes ago, goldfishwars said:

Man, he was more dominant than I remembered....

 

He was taking those corners for a ride man
 

imagine if the Chiefs draft him to sit behind Watkins and Robinson for a year...

Edited April 18, 2020 by Chiefer

[MrOaktown_56]

28 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

What I liked more from that is the physicality. The routes by and large weren't polished. The other big thing to keep in mind with the Senior Bowl is that those drills favor the WR by design. The CB is on an island, and the WR has a two-way go with no pass rush. But yes, the Senior Bowl certainly helps his stock, but for me, it's more because of the physicality than the sharpness of the routes.

When I watch Mims in a one on one, I think the corner will panic becuase he's so big and fast. Not to mention physical at the catchpoint and a sideline magician. He lacks consistency and polish. Sometimes he'll flash a route that makes you think "wow he can really put it all together", but he needs time and coaching.

14 minutes ago, goldfishwars said:

Favors the receivers for sure but he was beating guys in 1 on 1s at a much higher rate than his counterparts. The defensive backs had a pretty dominant week outside of Mims. Not always razor sharp and clean, but the foot quickness is there for a big guy and my dude is twisting his man up a little more than once. He's not afraid to mix it up and play to his size advantage though that's for sure. Beautiful catch over his shoulder, tracking is impressive. 

I'm not taking him if I need someone to slot right in and contribute now. I'd be weary if I were the Vikings, say. The ceiling is high, but it'll take some time. 

Green Bay is literally the perfect fit for Mims. 

[Forge]

4 minutes ago, Chiefer said:

He was taking those corners for a ride man
 

imagine if the Chiefs draft him to sit behind Watkins and Robinson for a year...

Diminishing returns tbh

[Chiefer]

Just now, Forge said:

Diminishing returns tbh

Keeps the deck stacked for the Mahomes though. That’s won us a championship so far.

[jrry32]

1 hour ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I'd have to go back individually. I've seen him show some deception with getting corners turned around by threatening them vertically then running a nice deep curl. That play is not in here.

On a play  vs UTSA in here (:44) I see him attack inside leverage before breaking outside. The DB trips, but the execution shows potential.

Also I'm not a fan of highlights but I don't have good cutups for Mims.

 

The thing is, some of his routes in here, like double moves are mechanical. He doesn't use his head and shoulders to sell every route. But the fact that he's still so successful shows me the potential he has once he gets with a good coach who shows him how to become a technician to go with his physical gifts.

And he has good hip flexibility so I know he has the ability to run a route tree.

Normally I'm not a fan of "project" guys, but Mims is an easy project to finish for me. You get him a good coach and watch him take off.

I think the UTSA play is a lot like this one, and I'd say they show more a lack of nuance than nuance. Here's a TD he scored against Texas:

I think some people will look at the stutter and say that it adds nuance to the route. I'd go the opposite direction. If people recall, I talked about how Tyler Johnson alters his routes based on the coverage he sees and what his offense is trying to do. I think this is an example of the opposite. Nobody is in the middle of the field. The CB is playing inside leverage. Look at all the players in the box. This should indicate to the WR that there's no safety help in the middle of the field and that his QB is going to likely face pressure. In addition, it's play-action, so the LBs should get drawn up. Mims isn't helping his QB by adding the stutter, and his route tempo is tipping the CB that it's a quicker break.

What should Mims have done? Get a hard vertical push off the LOS, keep the CB on his heels, stay centered and keep your eyes on his nose (to make him respect the two-way go), and then when you hit your spot, plant and explode off the outside foot. Be ready to use your hands if he tries to jam you when you cross his face (if he decides to park himself at the goal-line). That keeps your QB from having to hold onto the ball after the PA fake with pressure in his face and should create more separation on the route. Mims actually reduces his separation because he doesn't explode off the plant foot. Instead, he tries to explode more off the pivot foot. To both their credit, Brewer makes a great anticipation pass, and Mims makes a difficult catch.

You want to use fakes when you have a CB who has help to one side and is leveraging himself to the other side. If you're trying to attack his leverage side, you can use a fake to get him out of position to cross his face. Because of the help, he has no reason otherwise not to squat. But when a CB doesn't have help on a route like this, it's not necessary. And here, it actually detracts from his separation.

The UTSA play isn't as clear cut as this one, but I still think a hard vertical push with an explosive cut and some physicality at the top of the route (if needed) would have been better on a play like that because the CB had no help. He was already playing inside leverage there. No need to try and sell a fake inside. Just sell the two-way go and then use your superior athleticism to create the separation out of the break.

Edited April 18, 2020 by jrry32

[Forge]

2 minutes ago, Chiefer said:

Keeps the deck stacked for the Mahomes though. That’s won us a championship so far.

Missed the year down the line bit

[MrOaktown_56]

5 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

I think the UTSA play is a lot like this one, and I'd say they show more a lack of nuance than nuance. Here's a TD he scored against Texas:

I think some people will look at the stutter and say that it adds nuance to the route. I'd go the opposite direction. If people recall, I talked about how Tyler Johnson alters his routes based on the coverage he sees and what his offense is trying to do. I think this is an example of the opposite. Nobody is in the middle of the field. The CB is playing inside leverage. Look at all the players in the box. This should indicate to the WR that there's no safety help in the middle of the field and that his QB is going to likely face pressure. In addition, it's play-action, so the LBs should get drawn up. Mims isn't helping his QB by adding the stutter, and his route tempo is tipping the CB that it's a quicker break.

What should Mims have done? Get a hard vertical push off the LOS, keep the CB on his heels, stay centered and keep your eyes on his nose (to make him respect the two-way go), and then when you hit your spot, plant and explode off the outside foot. Be ready to use your hands if he tries to jam you when you cross your face (if he decides to park himself at the goal-line). That keeps your QB from having to hold onto the ball after the PA fake with pressure in his face and should create more separation on the route. Mims actually reduces his separation because he doesn't explode off the plant foot. Instead, he tries to explode more off the pivot foot. To both their credit, Brewer makes a great anticipation pass, and Mims makes a difficult catch.

You want to use fakes when you have a CB who has help to one side and is leveraging himself to the other side. If you're trying to attack his leverage side, you can use a fake to get him out of position to cross his face. Because of the help, he has no reason otherwise not to squat. But when a CB doesn't have help on a route like this, it's not necessary. And here, it actually detracts from his separation.

The UTSA play isn't as clear cut as this one, but I still think a hard vertical push with an explosive cut and some physicality at the top of the route (if needed) would have been better on a play like that because the CB had no help. He was already playing inside leverage there. No need to try and sell a fake inside. Just sell the two-way go and then use your superior athleticism to create the separation out of the break.

Great post.

This is a great example of how he's mechanical and doesn't think through things. But the UTSA clip shows that he's TRYING to become a salesman and technician. He has a 2 way go and he uses it by attacking inside leverage to create space for his out breaking route. I agree that a sharp cut probably would have sufficed. Either that or it was his coaches who told him to run the route like that (which is...). He just doesn't have the coaching and Baylor runs a hilariously simple route tree/offense.