TheRealMcCoy Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Matts4313 said: Since they havent played the same amount of games, lets look at efficiency: Dak: 66% comp, 4.5 TD%, 1.7 INT%, 6.56 ANY/A, 96 rating => 25 Goff: 62% comp, 5.2 TD%, 2.1 INT%, 6.85 ANY/A, 95 rating => 24 Wentz: 64%, 4.8 TD%, 1.9 INT%, 6.3 ANY/A, 93 Rating => 26 Looking at this, if Goff bounces back from the superbowl, there is a good chance he gets fat paid. Did you read that article about how the Lions/Bears/Pats all used the same strategy to beat Goff? He's got some stuff to work on. You gonna also point out that by a statistical/efficiency perspective that the only year that Prescott looked like the best QB of the 3 was his rookie year? How about the fact that how a QB does their rookie year isn't really a great indicator of what they'll ultimately end up being? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, TheRealMcCoy said: You gonna also point out that by a statistical/efficiency perspective that the only year that Prescott looked like the best QB of the 3 was his rookie year? How about the fact that how a QB does their rookie year isn't really a great indicator of what they'll ultimately end up being? He was better than both of them their first 24 games. He was equal to them the last 11. So thats 35 games that Dak = or > Wentz and Goff. How about those facts? Which is crazy, because thats pretty much how many games Goff and Wentz have even played. Edited June 7, 2019 by Matts4313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childofpudding Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Jroc04 said: Timing isn’t perfect but it’ll pay off if it goes well. I think you’re being a little ridiculous. I think most to all GMs make the deal if they know who and what he is. You find a possible franchise QB, all the while trading a lot of assets to acquire him, get a SB in your pocket in the meantime, you don’t watch him walk out the door. You’re going to give him every opportunity to prove he can’t before you make rash judgments. He leaves or is consistently hurt, you’re going to be in limbo anyway. I’d gamble in hopes it pays off. What are you losing? At the very least, let him play the game fully healthy with a good understanding of the pro game before passing judgment. The deal is debatable. The player, optimally, is a no brainer. What he is at the present moment is an oft-injured QB who was inconsistent last year and has yet to prove himself in the postseason. Knowing that, I don't think most GMs make that deal when he still has two years left on his contract. Heck, the Rams haven't extended Goff yet and he was top 10 in several QB categories this past season and led his team to a SB appearance. As for the bolded second part, the Eagles have decided to do just that with this extension. They are passing judgment before letting him play the game fully healthy with a good understanding of the pro game. The deal is debatable precisely because you have to include the qualifier "optimally" in your last sentence. Edited June 7, 2019 by childofpudding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: He was better than both of them their first 24 games. He was equal to them the last 11. So thats 35 games that Dak = or > Wentz and Goff. How about those facts? Which is crazy, because thats pretty much how many games Goff and Wentz have even played. whats his record against Goff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCoy Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: He was better than both of them their first 24 games. He was equal to them the last 11. So thats 35 games that Dak = or > Wentz and Goff. How about those facts? Which is crazy, because thats pretty much how many games Goff and Wentz have even played. He definitely has not been equal to Wentz or Goff over the last 2 seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 Just now, El ramster said: whats his record against Goff? About the same as Wentz record against Dak. #notgood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCoy Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 I'm not even a Dak hater. I like him and think he gets too much hate based on the fact he's a Cowboy, but man Matts loves homering it up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, TheRealMcCoy said: He definitely has not been equal to Wentz or Goff over the last 2 seasons. Thats not what I said? There was a clear period where Dak was very bad. It coincides with our OL and WRs completely falling apart. The OL was rated 28th overall. The WRs rated dead last in the NFL. His tools were worse than ARZ or CLE. And he played like it. Just now, TheRealMcCoy said: I'm not even a Dak hater. I like him and think he gets too much hate based on the fact he's a Cowboy, but man Matts loves homering it up. https://twitter.com/Marcus_Mosher/status/1090794435615617024/photo/1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 9 hours ago, Jroc04 said: Fair. But the guy has been handling the cap for 9-10 years now. He knows how to handle that deferred money. He takes on dead money, absolutely. But it’s minimally and mitigated through these extended ghost years he puts on contracts. I’ll give you some examples when I have time. But it’s not his first rodeo. He’s dealt with Cox having a QB level contract, along with Peters, Jeffrey, Brooks, Johnson, Graham Kelce, Ertz and others. He may be the best in the league at managing money. I’ll wait for him to let me down before questioning the guy. He came into this offseason with negative money and came out with FAs, resigned his franchise QB with top 8 (?) cap room. All while fielding a super bowl contender. You can wait to judge if you like. But he’s done enough for me, personally, to justify the confidence. That's not how dead money works. The dead money isn't mitigated by the ghost years. You're trading cap space now for dead money later. Those ghost years make the dead money more likely and more impactful, not mitigated. When you add those ghost years, it stretches the signing bonus out. So a $15M signing bonus on a 3 year deal would mean $5M per year in cap hit from the bonus. Add the two ghost years, and it makes it $3M per year in cap hit from the bonus. But those last two years of bonus will accelerate onto the cap when the deal autovoids. So you pay less for the 3 actual years of the contract, but in year 4 when it voids you have to pay the remainder, the $6M. So there's more dead money from that kind of contract structure, it just hasn't hit yet because Howie has mostly been doing this for the past two years or so. If you want to see this in reality, go to overthecap, and look at the Eagles cap in distant years like 2022. Any player you see with a prorated bonus, but without a salary for that year is on a ghost year, and the dollar value listed is going to become dead cap when those deals autovoid, when they get cut, when they retire, etc. The fundamental thing that should always be remembered when we talk about how good or bad GMs or teams are at cap management, is regardless of what they do, you cannot pay a player without paying it on the cap. You can very easily change when it's paid, you can change what kind of hit it is (bonus, salary, or dead money), but you can't pay a player without it hitting the cap. So if something isn't hitting the cap now, it will eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCoy Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: https://twitter.com/Marcus_Mosher/status/1090794435615617024/photo/1 That's cool. Don't think I ever wrote Dak off or acted like he wasn't a viable QB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBLIII Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 Dak is not quiet in the elite tier yet but I think people are vastly underestimating his ability. Dak has a chance to become an elite QB in this league with more experience and improved weapons like Cooper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 18 minutes ago, Jakuvious said: That's not how dead money works. The dead money isn't mitigated by the ghost years. You're trading cap space now for dead money later. Those ghost years make the dead money more likely and more impactful, not mitigated. When you add those ghost years, it stretches the signing bonus out. So a $15M signing bonus on a 3 year deal would mean $5M per year in cap hit from the bonus. Add the two ghost years, and it makes it $3M per year in cap hit from the bonus. But those last two years of bonus will accelerate onto the cap when the deal autovoids. So you pay less for the 3 actual years of the contract, but in year 4 when it voids you have to pay the remainder, the $6M. So there's more dead money from that kind of contract structure, it just hasn't hit yet because Howie has mostly been doing this for the past two years or so. If you want to see this in reality, go to overthecap, and look at the Eagles cap in distant years like 2022. Any player you see with a prorated bonus, but without a salary for that year is on a ghost year, and the dollar value listed is going to become dead cap when those deals autovoid, when they get cut, when they retire, etc. The fundamental thing that should always be remembered when we talk about how good or bad GMs or teams are at cap management, is regardless of what they do, you cannot pay a player without paying it on the cap. You can very easily change when it's paid, you can change what kind of hit it is (bonus, salary, or dead money), but you can't pay a player without it hitting the cap. So if something isn't hitting the cap now, it will eventually. I have tried explaining this. Roseman keeps kicking the can down the road. But eventually you have to pay it. They act like they are the only team to do this. Jerry Jones was doing this 15 years ago. But then eventually we had to pay. We had to gut the roster and wasted like 5 years of Romos career. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 21 hours ago, RuskieTitan said: They let a Super Bowl winning QB walk while paying for a QB who rides the pine due to injuries when it matters most. These sorts of decisions are exactly why the Eagles have only won a single SB. Didn't you also burn us for signing that same QB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 This is one of those extension that could end up being a steal if his injuries are behind him because he is a MVP caliber QB but the last 2 injuries were pretty scary so there is at least some hesitation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KellChippy Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 19 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said: Didn't you also burn us for signing that same QB? Some men just wanna see the world burn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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