dll2000 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 1 hour ago, DingoLadd said: Let me put it this way, what other team has let a Superbowl winning starting QB walk ? (Short of injury/Old Age) I'll wait. Giants, Ravens, Rams off top of my head. Hostetler and Dilfer won SB and immediately were replaced. Kurt Warner won Super Bowl and left for Giants and then Cardinals. Frank Reich and Drew Bledsoe played in super bowl and got replaced while in prime. McMahon left Bears that may be counted as old age or injury. Montana left for KC and was still good. Favre left and was still good. I think it happened several times in pre SB era too. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jroc04 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 23 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: For a decade, playing 50% of the games and never in the playoffs. So thats like what, an 8-8 record? Quit being hyperbolic. He’s played 40/48 regular season games. Wishing for injuries is all you have left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jroc04 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: I remember Ravens fans saying this about Ozzie when we signed Flacco, and look where that contract (among other bad decisions) got us. Ozzie is a master rosterman. Howie is a master capologist. I’m more worried about replenishing talent than I am money. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 18 minutes ago, dll2000 said: Giants, Ravens, Rams off top of my head. Hostetler and Dilfer won SB and immediately were replaced. Kurt Warner won Super Bowl and left for Giants and then Cardinals. Frank Reich and Drew Bledsoe played in super bowl and got replaced while in prime. McMahon left Bears that may be counted as old age or injury. Montana left for KC and was still good. Favre left and was still good. I think it happened several times in pre SB era too. Warner doesnt fit this criteria. Rams moved on from him because of injuries. 2 seasons after their last superbowl run with him he only played 7 games total out of a possible 32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 46 minutes ago, Jroc04 said: Quit being hyperbolic. He’s played 40/48 regular season games. Wishing for injuries is all you have left. Hes play like 13 healthy games in the NFL. The other 27 you love to remind us that his arm had an ouchy or his back had a boo boo. You cant play both sides. Also he missed like 50% of his college games. Injury unlucky amirite? And I am not wishing for him to be hurt, dont be absurd. I am recognizing that he has a track record all the way back to highschool of being hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 Had he stayed healthy and won the last 2 SB's I could agree he is worth it. But this is Tom Brady worth type money which he just hasn't proven it. This is a dumb decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 I'm very torn on this. On one hand I get what they're doing. You do this early and you can give him an extension that isn't impacted by Dak or Goff or Mahomes or Watson. Or even by potential late career deals for someone like Brady, Rivers, or Brees. So you beat the market going even higher, and avoid having to give him something even crazier if he really shows up this year and next. At the same time it just seems risky. Between the injuries and the fact that I feel he's still shown more good than great so far, this seems like a huge risk. It's a bold move, for sure. It could legitimately save them like $8M per year for those 4 years. It could also saddle them with a QB that is never healthy or good enough to be worth it. We'll see. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 2 hours ago, Jroc04 said: Are you guys actually questioning Howie’s ability to structure contracts and the cap? Learn a lesson. I would question the ability of anyone to manage a salary cap while paying a QB $30M+ per year. It will be difficult for any team that is going to be handing these contracts out soon to maintain the roster quality that many of them have at the moment. When you're paying that much to one player, it really becomes less about how you can manage the cap and structure contracts, and more about how well you can draft. No contract structuring is going to save that $25M more you're paying to your QB than the team with a journeyman or a rookie. It's also only going to get harder for the Eagles, specifically, as time goes on anyways. A lot of the supposed magic Roseman has done is just stuff the team will have to pay for in dead money later on. Next year's cap space for Philly will basically be what they can roll over from this year. And their contract structures mean they can't really save much of anything through cuts. Almost anyone they'd cut costs more in dead money than they would save in cap. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar12 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 I personally would have waited til next offseason especially with his injury history. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jroc04 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 6 hours ago, Matts4313 said: Hes play like 13 healthy games in the NFL. The other 27 you love to remind us that his arm had an ouchy or his back had a boo boo. You cant play both sides. Also he missed like 50% of his college games. Injury unlucky amirite? And I am not wishing for him to be hurt, dont be absurd. I am recognizing that he has a track record all the way back to highschool of being hurt. I “love to remind us”? You can try to find a quote stating it more than once if you like. I doubt you’ll find anything. And the only time I’ve mentioned his injuries was to compare Dak and Carson, debating with you, while Carson was recovering from an ACL tear AND a BROKEN BACK last year. And still they were comparable. lol Laughable. You can downplay his injuries as “ouchies” if you like. An ACL tear and a broken back. And he was still playing on both for a period of time. Cmon man. Ouchies? How am I playing both sides? Also, kind of hypocritical coming from you where every Dak stat posted comes with 12 asterisks about WRs’ separation percentages, OL sack rate, surrounding offensive talent, etc etc etc. Nothing is Dak’s fault apparently. I honestly think Carson’s biggest problem is himself. He runs diving into the end zone, has a freak injury while being hit two different ways by two different players, snapping the ACL and then rushes himself back knowing he’s not very mobile yet, OL gives up 13 sacks and 25 or so hurries in 3 games and gets his back broke. And still plays, by the way. He plays with some reckless abandon but I’ll bet he’ll be smarter moving forward. Bottomline, he’s a franchise QB and will be paid by someone. If not us, by someone else happily. The money isn’t crazy. It’s market. And I read that going forward, with inflation to the incoming cap years, he’ll own only around 12-14% of the cap. Pretty damn manageable going forward. Like I said, not worried about the money and Roseman at all. Carson stays healthy this year and he’ll be in the MVP conversation and then what else will you have? You need to hope he gets hurt or you’ll have nothing to post about anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jroc04 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 4 hours ago, Jakuvious said: I would question the ability of anyone to manage a salary cap while paying a QB $30M+ per year. It will be difficult for any team that is going to be handing these contracts out soon to maintain the roster quality that many of them have at the moment. When you're paying that much to one player, it really becomes less about how you can manage the cap and structure contracts, and more about how well you can draft. No contract structuring is going to save that $25M more you're paying to your QB than the team with a journeyman or a rookie. It's also only going to get harder for the Eagles, specifically, as time goes on anyways. A lot of the supposed magic Roseman has done is just stuff the team will have to pay for in dead money later on. Next year's cap space for Philly will basically be what they can roll over from this year. And their contract structures mean they can't really save much of anything through cuts. Almost anyone they'd cut costs more in dead money than they would save in cap. Fair. But the guy has been handling the cap for 9-10 years now. He knows how to handle that deferred money. He takes on dead money, absolutely. But it’s minimally and mitigated through these extended ghost years he puts on contracts. I’ll give you some examples when I have time. But it’s not his first rodeo. He’s dealt with Cox having a QB level contract, along with Peters, Jeffrey, Brooks, Johnson, Graham Kelce, Ertz and others. He may be the best in the league at managing money. I’ll wait for him to let me down before questioning the guy. He came into this offseason with negative money and came out with FAs, resigned his franchise QB with top 8 (?) cap room. All while fielding a super bowl contender. You can wait to judge if you like. But he’s done enough for me, personally, to justify the confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagles $5$ Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) This is just the way the Eagles do things... They did it with Lane Johnson. Made him one of the highest paid Tackles early, but now his average $11million salary isn't even Top 15 among tackles. I mean Trent Brown signed with the Raiders and he is making average $16 million. Ja'Wuan James is getting $13million lol. They are taking a gamble, but they are gambling that he isn't going to get injured anymore... Not on his abilities and whether he is a franchise QB. Unlike the Cowboys who aren't still sure about Dak and whether they should pay him or not... or the Redskins with Kirk Cousins. I mean we have invested a lot in Wentz not to take this gamble on him. I truly believe he will show his worth this year as he is finally healthy. People are going to look back and say that Wentz contract is cheap in the next 24 months or so lol. Edited June 7, 2019 by Eagles $5$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 2 hours ago, Jroc04 said: I “love to remind us”? You can try to find a quote stating it more than once if you like. I doubt you’ll find anything. And the only time I’ve mentioned his injuries was to compare Dak and Carson, debating with you, while Carson was recovering from an ACL tear AND a BROKEN BACK last year. And still they were comparable. lol Laughable. You can downplay his injuries as “ouchies” if you like. An ACL tear and a broken back. And he was still playing on both for a period of time. Cmon man. Ouchies? How am I playing both sides? Also, kind of hypocritical coming from you where every Dak stat posted comes with 12 asterisks about WRs’ separation percentages, OL sack rate, surrounding offensive talent, etc etc etc. Nothing is Dak’s fault apparently. I honestly think Carson’s biggest problem is himself. He runs diving into the end zone, has a freak injury while being hit two different ways by two different players, snapping the ACL and then rushes himself back knowing he’s not very mobile yet, OL gives up 13 sacks and 25 or so hurries in 3 games and gets his back broke. And still plays, by the way. He plays with some reckless abandon but I’ll bet he’ll be smarter moving forward. Bottomline, he’s a franchise QB and will be paid by someone. If not us, by someone else happily. The money isn’t crazy. It’s market. And I read that going forward, with inflation to the incoming cap years, he’ll own only around 12-14% of the cap. Pretty damn manageable going forward. Like I said, not worried about the money and Roseman at all. Carson stays healthy this year and he’ll be in the MVP conversation and then what else will you have? You need to hope he gets hurt or you’ll have nothing to post about anymore. "you" being a general term for Eagles fans. Not you specifically. Sorry for not being clear. Again though, although I joked about his ailments, it was 1. bad elbow as rookie 2. bad knee as a 2nd year 3. bad back his 3rd year + ~50% of his college games. Thats not playing both sides about Dak. Thats explaining why Dak had a terrible stretch from Falcons 17 - Titans 18. And yes, Dak has fault with that too. But its context. Dak played bad, our OL was ranked 28th and our WRs were ranked dead last. All 3 are true. You are right about that he needs to learn to protect himself and likely will. I didnt really bash the contract too much. $36m/yr is more than I thought he would get by a little, but getting the deal done before the new CBA was very smart. The Cap is about to sky rocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art_Vandalay Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 8 hours ago, Matts4313 said: Hes play like 13 healthy games in the NFL. The other 27 you love to remind us that his arm had an ouchy or his back had a boo boo. You cant play both sides. Also he missed like 50% of his college games. Injury unlucky amirite? And I am not wishing for him to be hurt, dont be absurd. I am recognizing that he has a track record all the way back to highschool of being hurt. I think you know my stance on the signing. I would've let him play out his 5th year and determined whether or not to sign him based on his ability to stay healthy. HOWEVER, if you gave me the choice to pay a potentially great, MVP caliber QB with durability concerns, or a more durable low-ceiling QB, I'd take my chances on the one with the potential. Dak's going to put Dallas in QB purgatory once he gets extended. That's a place no one wants to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Eagles $5$ said: Unlike the Cowboys who aren't still sure about Dak and whether they should pay him or not Thats completely false. How did you come to that conclusion? And please dont tell me silly people on a message board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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