Eagles Extend Carson Wentz

[Matts4313]

1 minute ago, Art_Vandalay said:

I think you know my stance on the signing. I would've let him play out his 5th year and determined whether or not to sign him based on his ability to stay healthy. HOWEVER, if you gave me the choice to pay a potentially great, MVP caliber QB with durability concerns, or a more durable low-ceiling QB, I'd take my chances on the one with the potential. Dak's going to put Dallas in QB purgatory once he gets extended. That's a place no one wants to be.

Again - and it has already been pointed out - Dak =/> Wentz in durability and statistically. 

But in the eyes of some "its no contest". When you ask them to explain it "you just gotta watch the tape". Thats called bias. There really isnt any logical justification for putting a big gap between the two players. 

Wentz is a tad more athletic, exciting and aggressive

Dak is more durable, statistically better and plays QB in a way that is conducive to winning a lot of football

The two are a lot closer than Eagles fans want to believe. 

[Art_Vandalay]

3 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

The two are a lot closer than Eagles fans want to believe.

I don't think Dak is bad. He's cool under pressure, avoids mistakes, and doesn't lose games. But what I'm saying, and it really isn't debatable, is there's a pretty big gap in the peak level of play that we've seen from Carson and Dak. During the 2017 season, the words associated with him in the media were "incredible, MVP, elite." You have never heard those words associated with Dak. With him, you'll hear, "efficient, winner, consistent." These aren't bad words. But they're indicative of his ceiling. You can win games with Dak. But as far as playing above the X's and O's and carrying his team to victory when the rest of his guys are struggling, that's just not going to happen.

Carson's a volatile stock. Dak's a mutual fund.

[Matts4313]

4 minutes ago, Art_Vandalay said:

I don't think Dak is bad. He's cool under pressure, avoids mistakes, and doesn't lose games. But what I'm saying, and it really isn't debatable, is there's a pretty big gap in the peak level of play that we've seen from Carson and Dak. During the 2017 season, the words associated with him in the media were "incredible, MVP, elite." You have never heard those words associated with Dak. With him, you'll hear, "efficient, winner, consistent." These aren't bad words. But they're indicative of his ceiling. You can win games with Dak. But as far as playing above the X's and O's and carrying his team to victory when the rest of his guys are struggling, that's just not going to happen.

Carson's a volatile stock. Dak's a mutual fund.

Real question => Until we see that level of "peak" again, how do you know its not a 'Ryan Fitzpatrick' level streak? 

Wentz played much more like Dak this year than his 2017 campaign. 

[Art_Vandalay]

3 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Real question => Until we see that level of "peak" again, how do you know its not a 'Ryan Fitzpatrick' level streak? 

Wentz played much more like Dak this year than his 2017 campaign. 

1) Ryan Fitzpatrick has never been an MVP candidate. 2) You could absolutely be right. He could very well continue to battle injuries and never return to that level. But we've all seen the type of player he can be. Again, I wouldn't have extended the guy right now but I understand why the Eagles organization would gamble a little bit. There's a big difference between paying someone with the assumption that they're going to take the next step vs actually seeing what that next step is.

[DawgX]

It's a lot of money, but Wentz will prove worth it if he stays health. But that's a big if.

[Matts4313]

11 minutes ago, Art_Vandalay said:

1) Ryan Fitzpatrick has never been an MVP candidate

QB1: 66.3% comp, 299 yards a game, 2.8 TDs/per game, 1.2 INTs, 113 QB Rating

QB2: 60.3% comp, 254 YPG, 2.5 TD/game, .5 INT/gm, 102 QB Rating

I am not saying Fitz = Wentz. My only point is that even crappy QB's can go on ridiculous streaks. 

 

I am hoping that Wentz/Dak become the Brady/Manning of the next 15 years. Dak resembles a young Brady (conservative winning), Wentz resembles a young Manning (a lot of hype/impressive throws). 

[MikeT14]

Good now do Prescott next plz.

[Jroc04]

What’s all the issues with the money, injuries aside? Of course it’s a lot of money. It’s the most important position in sports. 

6 years 154M. 25.6 per. Good for about 8th most for QBs. Looks like a good deal to me. I hear the injury concern but assuming he’s healthy this is a home run for the Eagles FO. 

[NVRamsFan]

2 minutes ago, Jroc04 said:

What’s all the issues with the money, injuries aside? Of course it’s a lot of money. It’s the most important position in sports. 

6 years 154M. 25.6 per. Good for about 8th most for QBs. Looks like a good deal to me. I hear the injury concern but assuming he’s healthy this is a home run for the Eagles FO. 

It’s just funny sometimes how we see fan bases quote the numbers. Their guy signs an extension and the current deal is added on to it to make it less aav. Another team signs a guy the number quoted will be just the extension to make the aav look as high as possible. Yes Wentz has had good stretches as the Eagles starter. But it’s undeniable that he’s been injured more than any fan would like. That’s going to make people question not just the money but especially the guaranteed money. 

[SBLIII]

3 minutes ago, Jroc04 said:

What’s all the issues with the money, injuries aside? Of course it’s a lot of money. It’s the most important position in sports. 

6 years 154M. 25.6 per. Good for about 8th most for QBs. Looks like a good deal to me. I hear the injury concern but assuming he’s healthy this is a home run for the Eagles FO. 

The rookie scale shouldn't really factor into this. 

4/128=32 per. The deal looks solid on paper if Wentz stays healthy. 

[Elky]

That's a lot of money for a guy that has been outplayed by his backup for two years.

[Jroc04]

13 minutes ago, SBLIII said:

The rookie scale shouldn't really factor into this. 

4/128=32 per. The deal looks solid on paper if Wentz stays healthy. 

I don’t see why not. It was definitely part of the negotiations.  If Carson is going to give up a little later, he’s going to need the last of the rookie deal bumped up, in terms of averages. Each side had to concede something. Carson could have bet on himself and straight cashed in after this year. But he took the money now. The concession is that he take less in the long run. This happens all the time. 

[HTTRDynasty]

22 minutes ago, Jroc04 said:

What’s all the issues with the money, injuries aside? Of course it’s a lot of money. It’s the most important position in sports. 

6 years 154M. 25.6 per. Good for about 8th most for QBs. Looks like a good deal to me. I hear the injury concern but assuming he’s healthy this is a home run for the Eagles FO. 

With the extra $16 million in incentives, it’s actually 6 years, $170 million, which is $28.33 million per year. Whether he actually plays well enough to get the incentives or not, Howie is going to have to keep that cap space available on the assumption that he does, which makes that extra $16m a real expense that keeps you from spending it on other players until it’s clear he won’t hit the contract’s ceiling. 

[rudyZ]

14 hours ago, ACO said:

Smart. I think Wentz will have a great year and this saves them some money. LOL

Yeah, it's a gamble. Does he deserve this based on what he has done? I don't think so. But you have to pay your QB as soon as you can, and bet on that contract looking very good in a couple years from now. Did Jimmy G deserve as much money as he got last year, based on 7 career starts? Absolutely not. But am I glad he signed last year for that much money? I sure am, because in a couple of years, that contract might look like a bargain. Honestly, it already looks like a bargain. And being in the NFC West, I can't wait for Goff's big pay day, just like the Eagles are counting on the other QBs in the division getting paid (it might take a while for Jones and Haskins, but then again, these two teams are already investing heavily in their QBs even with rookie QBs coming in).

[Jroc04]

15 minutes ago, HTTRG3Dynasty said:

With the extra $16 million in incentives, it’s actually 6 years, $170 million, which is $28.33 million per year. Whether he actually plays well enough to get the incentives or not, Howie is going to have to keep that cap space available on the assumption that he does, which makes that extra $16m a real expense that keeps you from spending it on other players until it’s clear he won’t hit the contract’s ceiling. 

Which still lands him 5th. So, if he’s hitting those escalators, he’s damn worth it correct? 

Without seeing those incentives it’s hard to say how exactly expensive it’ll be. Is it for games played, winning games, playoffs, MVPs? Who knows. I’d imagine he’d keep some sort of nut to pay Carson in case but for him not to have a contingency plan for payroll is pretty irresponsible. Ill go out on a limb and say Howie has a little more than thought the process out.