Does our defence look as good to anybody else as it does to me?

[Norm]

Raji was a lazy bastard. Me and SSG should have been like this with him

https://youtu.be/za3BbdCyp-A

[boratt]

The pass rush on this 2019 defense is ridiculously deep

 

Zadarius - one of the most talented hand fighters in the NFL. A true tactician in his prime

Clark - explosive, quick, strong and constantly developing technique and savvy

Daniels - Ridiculously underrated. Had one down year, but 29 sacks in the same career span as Raji who had 11, and people call it a comparison. Ha. Just turned 30, back end of his prime. Gonna have a huge contract year.. 

Preston - Speed, length, some strength and constantly improving technique.

Gary - Like Frabk Clark and JJ Watt before him, he’s an oversized big 10 edge player. Was asked to play run first and had fewer pass rush opportunities. But showed elite pass rush talent. He might be our best pass rusher, but giving it the rookie tempered expectation, I’ll put him after Preston.

Fackrell - has some favorable matchups. Feed him when he’s hot. 

Montravius Adams - finally figuring out how to be a pro. First time he’s shown up in good shape and that’s on the heels of a nice finish to 2018. 

Dean Lowry - Nice finish to 2019. Gets some pressure inside. 

 

These are 8 guys who’ve shown signs of talent to get 5+ sacks in a season. Zadarius is probably the most consistent player in the group, but Gary has potential to be the best. 

[vegas492]

33 minutes ago, boratt said:

The pass rush on this 2019 defense is ridiculously deep

 

Zadarius - one of the most talented hand fighters in the NFL. A true tactician in his prime

Clark - explosive, quick, strong and constantly developing technique and savvy

Daniels - Ridiculously underrated. Had one down year, but 29 sacks in the same career span as Raji who had 11, and people call it a comparison. Ha. Just turned 30, back end of his prime. Gonna have a huge contract year.. 

Preston - Speed, length, some strength and constantly improving technique.

Gary - Like Frabk Clark and JJ Watt before him, he’s an oversized big 10 edge player. Was asked to play run first and had fewer pass rush opportunities. But showed elite pass rush talent. He might be our best pass rusher, but giving it the rookie tempered expectation, I’ll put him after Preston.

Fackrell - has some favorable matchups. Feed him when he’s hot. 

Montravius Adams - finally figuring out how to be a pro. First time he’s shown up in good shape and that’s on the heels of a nice finish to 2018. 

Dean Lowry - Nice finish to 2019. Gets some pressure inside. 

 

These are 8 guys who’ve shown signs of talent to get 5+ sacks in a season. Zadarius is probably the most consistent player in the group, but Gary has potential to be the best. 

Again, dig the optimism.  I could take the other side to this, but I want to stay optimistic.

I'll say this about the squad...they have the potential to be very deep at the rush.  And versatile. 

I don't think they have a "lead dog" in there, but collectively, I think they are going to do great things.

Guessing Z is going to end up being the "alpha" in that group.

[AlexGreen#20]

43 minutes ago, boratt said:

The pass rush on this 2019 defense is ridiculously deep

 

Zadarius - one of the most talented hand fighters in the NFL. A true tactician in his prime

Clark - explosive, quick, strong and constantly developing technique and savvy

Daniels - Ridiculously underrated. Had one down year, but 29 sacks in the same career span as Raji who had 11, and people call it a comparison. Ha. Just turned 30, back end of his prime. Gonna have a huge contract year.. 

Preston - Speed, length, some strength and constantly improving technique.

Gary - Like Frabk Clark and JJ Watt before him, he’s an oversized big 10 edge player. Was asked to play run first and had fewer pass rush opportunities. But showed elite pass rush talent. He might be our best pass rusher, but giving it the rookie tempered expectation, I’ll put him after Preston.

Fackrell - has some favorable matchups. Feed him when he’s hot. 

Montravius Adams - finally figuring out how to be a pro. First time he’s shown up in good shape and that’s on the heels of a nice finish to 2018. 

Dean Lowry - Nice finish to 2019. Gets some pressure inside. 

 

These are 8 guys who’ve shown signs of talent to get 5+ sacks in a season. Zadarius is probably the most consistent player in the group, but Gary has potential to be the best. 

There's an argument to be made we have the 3rd best rush group in our division

[MacReady]

Honestly, out of all the players to get excited about, and with respect to Gary, I'm most excited about Darnell Savage. 

It's been so long, too long, since we've had that kind of speed back there at safety. 

Also, Rashan Gary is 7th in the Big Ten since 2016 in QB pressures.  That seems kinda high to me for someone who wasn't asked to rush the passer and is allegedly not great at rushing the passer. 

But back to Savage, I love him. 

[AlexGreen#20]

Just now, Outpost31 said:

Honestly, out of all the players to get excited about, and with respect to Gary, I'm most excited about Darnell Savage. 

It's been so long, too long, since we've had that kind of speed back there at safety. 

Also, Rashan Gary is 7th in the Big Ten since 2016 in QB pressures.  That seems kinda high to me for someone who wasn't asked to rush the passer and is allegedly not great at rushing the passer. 

But back to Savage, I love him. 

That's not high at all.

That includes:

Nobody who was drafted last year would make sense because they would only have two seasons in the time frame (16 and 17 before being drafted in the 18 draft)

That includes guys from this year's (three year players) and next year's draft classes (four year players, not counting their last year which is yet to happen) only if I'm thinking about this right. 

And the guys who play four years, usually didn't play much their first year so they're typically only going to have seen two years also. 

The only real elite competition he has to compete in this time frame in Bosa didn't play nearly as much.

 

[MacReady]

You’re going to be as wrong about Gary as you were your namesake.

[packfanfb]

51 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

There's an argument to be made we have the 3rd best rush group in our division

Says more about Chi and Minn than us though. We have a solid group but any team anchored by Mack and Hunter is going to be solid right off the get-go. 

[SSG]

26 minutes ago, MrBobGray said:

Consistently overweight?  Do you have any kind of source for this, because he looked more or less the same to me through at least 2013.  I don't buy the idea that his drop in performance had anything to do with laziness.  There's a number of factors:

• He was playing a preposterously high number of snaps for a 340 lb NT:

• The group around him got much worse in the pass rush.  Pickett was nothing more than a space eater from 2011 on, Jenkins left, and the guys tapped to replace him (Mike Neal, Datone Jones) did not do so.  In 2011 and most of 2012 Raji and Matthews were the only plus rushers on the team who played regular snaps. 
• The secondary got worse as well.  With Collins gone and Woodson aging the coverage was no longer good enough to force QBs to hold the ball with the same regularity.  

Raji clearly lost interest in the game by the end of his career, but I don't think it's fair to say that he threw away elite talent out of laziness.  The Packers simply didn't field a legitimate NFL front seven for a few years, and relied on their two studs to basically just hold it all together.

 There were reports in both 2012 and 2013 that Raji showed up to camp over weight and out of shape.  The below jsoline article specifically called him sloppy and questioned his future with Green Bay because of his lack of conditioning.  Says alot about Raji's work ethic when this was the most important offseason of his NFL career.   I've got a hard time blaming his snap count.  First, in 2011 Vince Wilfork (a 30 years old VW) and Darnell Dockett both played more snaps as DTs and neither seen their play on the field plummet.  Maybe it's a preposterously high snap count for a guy who's lazy but Raji was aiming to be the highest paid DT in the NFL.  Second, Raji's best season as a pro was 2010 when he played in over 86% of the defensive snaps.  His play got worse as his snap count got smaller.

http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-badly-in-need-of-linemen-md9mp7g-204614021.html/

 

Quote

Ryan Pickett, 33, and entering his 13th season, is nearing the end. He reported two weeks ago overweight and out of shape.

B.J. Raji will be entering his contract year, but you sure wouldn't have known it by his conditioning. He has looked as sloppy as Pickett, and at this juncture his employment beyond this season is uncertain.

You can make what ever excuse for Raji that you'd like but his NFL career was very bleak by time his second contract came along.  He went from turning down an 8 million dollar per year long term deal to having to settle for back to back one year deals, each being smaller than the amount he made the previous season.     

[MrBobGray]

I actually don't love this rush group if we're strictly talking sacks, but it should excel at what Pettine prefers anyway.  He wants to crush the pocket, and this is a group that should crush the pocket just fine.  I think people are way overselling the defense, but I do think it should shape up to be a damn fine group.

[Shanedorf]

9 minutes ago, MrBobGray said:

it should excel at what Pettine prefers anyway.  He wants to crush the pocket,

OLB coach Smith is also teaching his crew to go after the ball instead of just the QB. His reasoning was that the league rules are too onerous - can't hit em high, can't hit em low, can't hit em late, can't touch their helmets. We saw that last year with the bs "burping the QB" call on Clay

But no such rules exist for swatting / punching the ball out, so that's one additional area he has focused on this offseason

"Sacking the football"

 

[HighCalebR]

I'm really just hoping they can find some turnovers this year. Maybe they can stay in the top half of the league in points allowed, see improvement in the system from last year. I dont think itll be an Elite D at all..

[AlexGreen#20]

1 hour ago, Outpost31 said:

You’re going to be as wrong about Gary as you were your namesake.

Never have I said he's going to bust. I am saying that he's not going to be an All-Pro his rookie year like so many seem to be excited about.

[SSG]

2 hours ago, boratt said:

The pass rush on this 2019 defense is ridiculously deep

 

Zadarius - one of the most talented hand fighters in the NFL. A true tactician in his prime

Clark - explosive, quick, strong and constantly developing technique and savvy

Daniels - Ridiculously underrated. Had one down year, but 29 sacks in the same career span as Raji who had 11, and people call it a comparison. Ha. Just turned 30, back end of his prime. Gonna have a huge contract year.. 

Preston - Speed, length, some strength and constantly improving technique.

Gary - Like Frabk Clark and JJ Watt before him, he’s an oversized big 10 edge player. Was asked to play run first and had fewer pass rush opportunities. But showed elite pass rush talent. He might be our best pass rusher, but giving it the rookie tempered expectation, I’ll put him after Preston.

Fackrell - has some favorable matchups. Feed him when he’s hot. 

Montravius Adams - finally figuring out how to be a pro. First time he’s shown up in good shape and that’s on the heels of a nice finish to 2018. 

Dean Lowry - Nice finish to 2019. Gets some pressure inside. 

 

These are 8 guys who’ve shown signs of talent to get 5+ sacks in a season. Zadarius is probably the most consistent player in the group, but Gary has potential to be the best. 

That's a deep group of bodies but there is very little career pass rushing production from the group.  Mike Daniels is the most productive pass rusher listed and he looked ancient last year showing very little pass rushing ability.  

How exactly is Zadarius Smith consistent?  He looked like a career back up prior to his out of the ordinary contract year.  His 4 year production as a pass rusher is piss poor when compared to other guys in his pay scale.  Calling him consistent is essentially ignoring his NFL career.  

Rashan Gary was a piss poor pass rusher while at Michigan despite being surrounded by high end talent and being a better athlete than 100% of the lineman he faced.  I'm a HUGE Michigan fan but to say he showed elite pass rushing ability while wearing that winged helmet is almost laughable.  He was almost a non factor as a pass rusher for most of his over hyped career in AA.  He's got potential because of his athletic ability but he's got a long, long, long ways to go IMO.  Frank Clark was a much more dominate player at Michigan and he had to struggle through Brady Hoke's complete rebuild.  He'd have been a top 3 pick had he played with the same caliber of talent that Gary played with (minus the legal trouble he had when he left AA).  

[SSG]

5 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Never have I said he's going to bust. I am saying that he's not going to be an All-Pro his rookie year like so many seem to be excited about.

I agree.  I don't see anymore than 4 sacks with most of those coming in mop up.  I don't see him beating NFL tackles for sacks consistently from the edge. 

IMO he'll never be a star but I don't think he's going to bust because he'll always be able to be used on the inside.  I don't understand how anyone could have watched him last year and come away believing that he's an elite pass rusher.