Tunsil, Stills traded to Houston

[wackywabbit]

So, what's really going to be the most important part of evaluating this trade in a few years is if the Texans continue to be a playoff team. That's a huge variable. If they are picking 25 or later, then it's actually not bad value to get a young, super athletic, skilled, tackle with a frame like Tunsil for those picks. You can't find players like that picking in the mid 20's; there aren't many humans like that walking the Earth. The Ravens in the same draft had a top 10 pick (for the first time since 2003?) and took Ronnie Stanley* and they said exactly that, that they can't get a player like that picking in the mid-20's. The compensation the Texans gave up (assuming the draft picks are later in the draft) isn't bad for a move up to a top 10 draft pick. 

However, if the Texans have a bad season in there. Say (knock on wood) Watson gets injured one of those years and they go 4-12, then this is a completely different trade. There is now a ton of pressure on the Texans to be good the next two years. I'm still stunned that the organization let a desperate coach made a move that mortgages the future like this. But, I also understand it from the perspective of trying to win big with Watson. It's just a very big gamble on the short term.

*likely could/would have been Tunsil if not for the gas mask thing

[FinSting]

14 minutes ago, wackywabbit said:

So, what's really going to be the most important part of evaluating this trade in a few years is if the Texans continue to be a playoff team. That's a huge variable. If they are picking 25 or later, then it's actually not bad value to get a young, super athletic, skilled, tackle with a frame like Tunsil for those picks.

Bro. Tunsil once missed a game vs the Titans because he slipped in the shower. 

[ET80]

39 minutes ago, wackywabbit said:

But, I also understand it from the perspective of trying to win big with Watson

It's more than that - it's ensuring Watson plays long enough to win consistently.

Do people remember that time Andrew Luck retired at 29? (It was last week). After a rookie season where he played six games until he tore his ACL, then a soph season that saw him playing through broken ribs and a punctured lung while getting sacked 62 times - how long do you think Watson had if something drastic wasn't done? Do you think he even makes it to 29 if he's put into another 62 sack season?

If the Colts could go back in time and trade away Bjorn Werner and Phillip Dorsett (two Colts' first round picks) for David Bakhtiari or Tryon Smith, do you think they do it? 

[Forge]

10 minutes ago, ET80 said:

It's more than that - it's ensuring Watson plays long enough to win consistently.

Do people remember that time Andrew Luck retired at 29? (It was last week). After a rookie season where he played six games until he tore his ACL, then a soph season that saw him playing through broken ribs and a punctured lung while getting sacked 62 times - how long do you think Watson had if something drastic wasn't done? Do you think he even makes it to 29 if he's put into another 62 sack season?

If the Colts could go back in time and trade away Bjorn Werner and Phillip Dorsett (two Colts' first round picks) for David Bakhtiari or Tryon Smith, do you think they do it? 

You guys should hire Trent Baalke as your GM now. He's perfect for you guys. He's very good at finding value in free agency, can procure you boatloads of late round picks for no reason, but can't blow all of your early round picks since you don't have any. Your team is seriously built to remove all of Baalke's horrific failings as a general manager right now and capitalize on the few things that he does well. 

[ET80]

2 minutes ago, Forge said:

You guys should hire Trent Baalke as your GM now. He's perfect for you guys. He's very good at finding value in free agency, can procure you boatloads of late round picks for no reason, but can't blow all of your early round picks since you don't have any. Your team is seriously built to remove all of Baalke's horrific failings as a general manager right now and capitalize on the few things that he does well. 

I wouldn't say no. As long as he fires BOB, I wouldn't say no.

[Awsi Dooger]

Bottom line I don't like paying high for offensive linemen, whether it is in the draft or trade or free agency. Maybe it's because I'm a Dolphins fan and remember how that awesome line from the early '70s glory era was put together. That position lends itself to late bloomers and technician types. Overall it is the least athletic group on the field, other than several players involved with the kicking game. 

Obviously there are examples where a high drafted lineman panned out and made a big difference. But I don't care about outliers as opposed to the big picture. Teams that are weak at offensive line tend to overreact to how far below the league norm they are, and how much they have to invest to regain league norm or above.

There are 5 players out there at all times in this grouping. Always keep that in mind first and foremost. It should be emphasized repeatedly. When there are 5 players instead of 1 then by absolute definition the grouping cannot vary as much from team to team as let's say quarterback with only 1 guy out there. You won't have 5 Hall of Famers on one team and 5 waiver wire types on another team. The NFL is built for parity and achieves relative parity. The Dolphins supposedly had a horrendous line last season. Meanwhile look at Frank Gore's rushing yards per attempt at age 35. It was fantastic, and far above what he achieved with the Colts at age 32, 33 or 34. He didn't improve dramatically at age 35. He had sufficient running lanes because NFL offensive lines simply don't vary as much as conventional wisdom allows. It's like a swimming race when technically one swimmer is 4th and another finishes 8th but when you watch it in real time all the hands are basically hitting the wall together. 

Since there are 5 players out there it makes even less sense to pay a ransom for 1 of them, as opposed to quarterback where the variance between superstar and also-ran dictates the entire level of your franchise.

The Dolphins got high level quarterback return for Tunsil. I'll take that every time without a second thought. It was a brilliant trade from a Miami perspective.

Also, don't underestimate the sea change in Miami. Tunsil is a bong type. I don't think the current regime wants bong types, not as high dollar anyway. Or let's just say if you are a bong type you are hardly untouchable. Again, it reminds me of the '70s approach where character and smarts dominated that Dolphins roster. The Bademosi acquisition in that trade was a subtle hint along these lines. I remember him from college. You are filling the roster with smart articulate Stanford types while also taking some low investment gambles on problem childs like Mark Walton and Gerald Willis.

Edited September 2, 2019 by Awsi Dooger

[FinSting]

5 hours ago, Forge said:

You guys should hire Trent Baalke as your GM now. He's perfect for you guys. He's very good at finding value in free agency, can procure you boatloads of late round picks for no reason, but can't blow all of your early round picks since you don't have any. Your team is seriously built to remove all of Baalke's horrific failings as a general manager right now and capitalize on the few things that he does well. 

There is smack-talking, and then there is this...like Ric Flair off the top rope suplex figure-4 deathlock post. Hahaha, Baalke. 

Edited September 3, 2019 by FinSting
nature boy -- space mountain

[Dr LBC]

It literally makes my skin crawl to agree with Michael Lombardi, but he has a point.  The Texans made a mistake in not utilizing the window that the league allows for in trades like this to extend Tunsil now, while they have leverage in the matter.  Otherwise, from the looks of things, they're going to end up potentially in this exact same situation next spring, just with a different player from Clowney, and one who has a ton of leverage (more so than Clowney had because the Texans just traded two premium picks to acquire Tunsil) to demand a benchmark-setting contract, deserved or not.

But, you know, that would probably require having an actual GM and not some dude strolling around with toilet paper trailing from the heel of his shoe named BOB.

[Woz]

On 9/1/2019 at 2:43 AM, The LBC said:

I think I speak for the other two when I say, we're just over here fighting over who gets the gold pants in ET's will.

Can I put in a claim on the Panda Milk?

[Dr LBC]

38 minutes ago, Woz said:

Can I put in a claim on the Panda Milk?

Pretty sure it's expired by now.

[Woz]

37 minutes ago, The LBC said:

Pretty sure it's expired by now.

... and?

I mean if we're picking over ET80's corpse, there's not a lot to choose from, is there?

[Dr LBC]

3 minutes ago, Woz said:

... and?

I mean if we're picking over ET80's corpse, there's not a lot to choose from, is there?

Apparently he's really into cycling now.  There could be a pretty sweet bike in it for someone.

[Woz]

8 minutes ago, The LBC said:

Apparently he's really into cycling now.  There could be a pretty sweet bike in it for someone.

[Superman(DH23)]

I've come in this thread at least 50 times now and everytime I swear it says Tunsil still traded to Houston.

[ET80]

32 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said:

I've come in this thread at least 50 times now and everytime I swear it says Tunsil still traded to Houston.

Yeah - I have to pinch myself too.