DAL signs RB Ezekiel Elliott to 6-year 90M extension 50M guaranteed

[Matts4313]

11 minutes ago, PapaShogun said:

That's a nice sentiment, but the draft is largely a crap shoot. No one hits most of their picks consistently. 

 

Just now, PapaShogun said:

But no one is like that. 

We have been. Its one of the few reasons that unifies all Cowboys fans to support Garrett (many hate him). Under Garrett we have been one of the best drafting and talent developing teams in the NFL. Year over year we have done above league average. 

[Skins212689]

1 minute ago, canadaluvsdallas said:

Cause we value the RB position more than other teams? Why would we let go of a RB drafted 4th overall??? 

Because of his off the field personality and decision making. Elliot would've had to prove himself capable of staying out of trouble or in the media b4 I made him the highest paid RB. 

Yes his talent fits the bill, but I don't trust him outside of football just yet. 

[canadaluvsdallas]

1 minute ago, PapaShogun said:

But no one is like that. 

I’m sorry but if your team thinks they can’t control the draft in any aspect it’s all destined for failure 

[TheKillerNacho]

9 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

The clear implication here is that "subjective metric" means not predictive or useful, which is not necessarily true.

There are plenty of examples where subjective metrics are more informative than "objective ones". We can try to estimate the amount of pain you're in after surgery by using things like heart rate, blood pressure, etc. with some change from baseline equation. It's not going to do nearly as well as the nurse asking you how much pain you feel on a scale from 1-10.

You want a football example? Sure. Show me one metric that predicts the NFL success of college players as well as aggregated draft rankings or average draft position from a series of mock drafts. Even metrics that do well, like the EDGE grades here, are going to struggle against the subjective industry consensus.

 

You can knock PFF all you want, but the criticism "subjective, therefore worthless" is poor.

You're right that this subjective metric might be more predictive but the burden of proof would lie on you to prove that. Until then, it's just an opinion. Perhaps an informed opinion, but no more credible than anyone else's.

Heart rate and blood pressure are stats, not metrics. And their purpose isn't usually to indicate the amount of pain someone is in. There's also a wealth of data supporting the correlation of these things to various health implications.

PFF metrics are numbers. Numbers that they made up. Granted, those numbers are probably created systematically but we don't know what that system is and it is definitely  arguable on the weights that they would put on such things. Just throwing them around like they have authority without the understanding of what they actually mean available to the public isn't helpful in the slightest.

You can defend PFF all you want but at the end of the day the burden of proof lies on them/you to prove they have worth, not the other way around.

 

[canadaluvsdallas]

Just now, Skins212689 said:

Because of his off the field personality and decision making. Elliot would've had to prove himself capable of staying out of trouble or in the media b4 I made him the highest paid RB. 

Yes his talent fits the bill, but I don't trust him outside of football just yet. 

Right so we have clauses set in place to void his guarantee if his off the field issues do cause issues? So what’s the next problem here?  

[Matts4313]

1 minute ago, Skins212689 said:

Because of his off the field personality and decision making. Elliot would've had to prove himself capable of staying out of trouble or in the media b4 I made him the highest paid RB. 

Yes his talent fits the bill, but I don't trust him outside of football just yet. 

Same concern, but we addressed it.

59 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

 

 

[Buckweath]

Let's just say that with those types of bad decisions, the Dallas Cowboys are not winning a SB anytime soon.

And why take so long to "negotiate" with Zeke if you're just going to end up paying him everything he was asking for.

Not a fan of drafting RB high. Not a fan of paying RBs big money. At all. Saquon Barkley might be an exception.

The better GMs and better teams in the league understand that.

 

My Chiefs had a pretty good RB in Hunt. They lost him and replaced him with cheap options. You won't see any difference. That's how good teams roll.

[ramssuperbowl99]

3 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said:

You're right that this subjective metric might be more predictive but the burden of proof would lie on you to prove that. Until then, it's just an opinion. Perhaps an informed opinion, but no more credible than anyone else's.

Heart rate and blood pressure are stats, not metrics. And their purpose isn't usually to indicate the amount of pain someone is in. There's also a wealth of data supporting the correlation of these things to various health implications.

PFF metrics are numbers. Numbers that they made up. Granted, those numbers are probably created systematically but we don't know what that system is and it is definitely  arguable on the weights that they would put on such things. 

You can defend PFF all you want but at the end of the day the burden of proof lies on them/you to prove they have worth, not the other way around.

 

You are getting lost in the terminology of metric vs. stat vs. number. The goal is to evaluate player performance, so what the parameter is doesn't matter, the only thing that matters is how well it performs.

I'm assuming PFF has done some type of analysis that shows how their rankings predict future performance versus any comparison, but have no idea. All I'm saying is that the implication of you post was that because PFF's data collection method cannot be reduced to some equation, it's worthless. If that's not what you meant, my bad. But that implication is wrong.

[Skins212689]

13 minutes ago, canadaluvsdallas said:

Right so we have clauses set in place to void his guarantee if his off the field issues do cause issues? So what’s the next problem here?  

If that's in the deal, there's no problem. 

[TheKillerNacho]

Just now, ramssuperbowl99 said:

You are getting lost in the terminology of metric vs. stat vs. number. The goal is to evaluate player performance, so what the parameter is doesn't matter, the only thing that matters is how well it performs.

I'm assuming PFF has done some type of analysis that shows how their rankings predict future performance versus any comparison, but have no idea. All I'm saying is that the implication of you post was that because PFF's data collection method cannot be reduced to some equation, it's worthless. If that's not what you meant, my bad. But that implication is wrong.

I'm not saying I know for sure it's worthless. What I'm saying is there's no reason to believe it's worth something one way or the other.

Take a metric like Passer Rating, for example. I think most would say it's a rather poor indication of actual successful passing. It's correlated in a sense - a higher passer rating typically indicates a good performance and a low rating typically indicates a poor one but there are a handful of exceptions every week, and the stat is near-worthless trying when evaluating players with a close rating (a player with a 98.2 passer rating on the day could've easily been more impressive than someone with an 100.5 passer rating). The problem with passer rating is that while it's derived from cold hard stats, the weight it gives those stats are highly subjective. And that says nothing about the context of the plays themselves.

Meanwhile "Elusive Rating", while certainly more complex than passer rating not only has the same failing: it is, presumably, a formula that plugs in more concrete numbers to form a single bottom-line figure, we don't even know how it works because PFF doesn't tell us what that formula is. So while anyone can calculate a passer rating and use that in a conversation and everyone will know what it means, Elusive Rating (as well as the bulk of PFF metrics) isn't even useful for that. Because no one in the conversation even knows what the damn thing means other than what PFF claims it indicates.

Which is why things like "Zeke is 33rd in Elusive Rating" has the same bearing to me as something saying "It is my opinion that Zeke is only the 33rd best RB in the NFL". I mean that's ok I guess, you're entitled to that opinion, but it doesn't mean anything if you're trying to have a discussion.

[Matts4313]

13 minutes ago, Buckweath said:

Let's just say that with those types of bad decisions, the Dallas Cowboys are not winning a SB anytime soon.

And why take so long to "negotiate" with Zeke if you're just going to end up paying him everything he was asking for.

Not a fan of drafting RB high. Not a fan of paying RBs big money. At all. Saquon Barkley might be an exception.

The better GMs and better teams in the league understand that.

 

My Chiefs had a pretty good RB in Hunt. They lost him and replaced him with cheap options. You won't see any difference. That's how good teams roll.

You have absolutely no idea the structure of the contract. So this is a really uninformed hot take. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

24 minutes ago, canadaluvsdallas said:

Cause we value the RB position more than other teams? Why would we let go of a RB drafted 4th overall??? 

That's how you justify it? "We drafted him 4th overall, we can't just let him walk"?

A) You shouldn't have drafted a RB 4th overall

B) Just because you did doesn't mean you're obligated to give him $90M

C) Even if you do, it doesn't mean it was a good decision

[MKnight82]

1 minute ago, Matts4313 said:

You have absolutely no idea the structure of the contract. So this is a really uninformed hot take. 

Haven't you been against signing him to a big extension?  

[TecmoSuperJoe]

25 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

 

We have been. Its one of the few reasons that unifies all Cowboys fans to support Garrett (many hate him). Under Garrett we have been one of the best drafting and talent developing teams in the NFL. Year over year we have done above league average. 

How many years do you feel that way? Whatever the case, it isn't sustainable, even if you believe it to be true.

[evilpimp972]

Obviously we have to wait for the specifics.

But giving out all that money to Zeke...Collins...

I don't think winning teams ...hum...the Patriots exactly...do it this way. 

If you draft well, you can avoid to pay that much money.