FA 2020

[NYRaider]

1 hour ago, jimkelly02 said:

Fornette isn’t the type of player who can be successful with intermediate carries.... he’s a rhythm runner. 

And he shouldn't get intermediate carries, he should be the workhorse back wherever he goes. He hasn't lived up to the hype but he was one of the few bright spots on a terrible Jaguars team last season. He finished the season with 1,654 all purpose yards which ranked 5th among RB's behind only McCaffery, Elliott, Chubb, and Henry. 

If I'm the Steelers, Texans, or Dolphins I'd claim him off waivers immediately. 

[jimkelly02]

5 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

That usually happens. It's ridiculous hype. Precisely why I don't jump on the Trevor Lawrence bandwagon. 

I figure either Chicago or Philly are likely to take a look. Maybe the Dolphins? Washington could be a possibility I suppose. 

He's exactly the type of player that I have no interest in seeing play for the Raiders though. 

Yeah.... idk why but it seems like a lot of those “freshman who could go pro” end up being busts in the NFL.  It use to happen a decent amount in the NBA too with top ranked HS players ending up late 2nd round picks or undrafted and having very short, unsuccessful careers.

Id really like to know if it’s just “empirical data”... as in we cherry pick our memory to find rare instances it happens and believe it happens more often than it does.

In theory it’d be nice to add a talented hard running RB of his caliber and have him run behind our OL.... but yeah I don’t feel like it’d work out in the end.  Jacobs is a more effective runner and in order to use Fournette enough to make him valuable to us it’d be at the detriment to Jacobs.... not to mention mess up our chemistry.

Ideally, IMO we find a RB2 who can carry the ball 6-15x a game (As a range; NOT average).... be the short distance and goal RB.... be used to at end of games to pound out the clock... give us 110-130 carries a season.... who isn’t a total bum in the passing game so as to tip the defenses hand.... who can come in for one play on a drive and be effective; doesn’t need to get 15 carries before he gains steam.... etc

Just some names I can think of: Jamaal Williams (GB), Damien Harris (NE), Gus Edwards (Balt), a reformed/behaved Kareem Hunt (Cle), Benny Snell (Pit), Royce Freeman (Den), Latavius Murray (NO).... even lesser options like Bo Scarborough (Det), Brian Hill (Atl) would fill most of that role and the rest could be picked up by Bowden/Richard.

Maybe a RB shakes loose at the Cut down and we scoop them up.  It’s not a massive need, I just am a big believer in the low cost of a RB2 Versus the insurance of Jacobs gets dinged AND the ability to limit Jacobs wear and tear LONGTERM.  

If not this year maybe we draft a RB in the 4-5th round or sign a FA who ends up being a real value due to the supply on ‘21’s FA class.

Either way..... they have to fit the team.... and talent alone doesn’t make one RB a better team fit.

 

Btw, Jax’s RB room was left pretty scarce:

Devine Ozigbo, Chris Thompson, Ryquell Armstrong, UDFA (but could be a sleeper find) James Robinson, and UDFA Nathan Cottrell.  
 

Were sitting over here complaining about adding a RB2 to go along with Jacobs, Richard, and Bowden and the guys who likely won’t even make our team in Booker and Riddick would start for Jax.

[jimkelly02]

5 hours ago, NYRaider said:

And he shouldn't get intermediate carries, he should be the workhorse back wherever he goes. He hasn't lived up to the hype but he was one of the few bright spots on a terrible Jaguars team last season. He finished the season with 1,654 all purpose yards which ranked 5th among RB's behind only McCaffery, Elliott, Chubb, and Henry. 

If I'm the Steelers, Texans, or Dolphins I'd claim him off waivers immediately. 

I think there’s a 50% chance he rebounds and becomes a good starting RB in the league.... but its about team fit with him.  He needs a good OL and a team who will commit to pounding the run.  
 

Its almost like the narrative is he was a bust.... when he ran for 1150 yards on 4.3 ypc last year.  
 

Someone could literally stumble across a 25yo franchise RB for next to nothing.

I just don’t think he’s a great fit with us, nor are we an attractive fit for him.

[Humble_Beast]

1 hour ago, jimkelly02 said:

I think there’s a 50% chance he rebounds and becomes a good starting RB in the league.... but its about team fit with him.  He needs a good OL and a team who will commit to pounding the run.  
 

Its almost like the narrative is he was a bust.... when he ran for 1150 yards on 4.3 ypc last year.  
 

Someone could literally stumble across a 25yo franchise RB for next to nothing.

I just don’t think he’s a great fit with us, nor are we an attractive fit for him.

I just doing get the Fournette hate the Jags have for him. He isn't all pro but he is a good RB

[jimkelly02]

4 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

I just doing get the Fournette hate the Jags have for him. He isn't all pro but he is a good RB

Well I assume the hate is because of the lack of wins and he’s made himself a target by not meeting massive expectations and his off the field behavior.

[ronjon1990]

5 hours ago, jimkelly02 said:

Yeah.... idk why but it seems like a lot of those “freshman who could go pro” end up being busts in the NFL.  It use to happen a decent amount in the NBA too with top ranked HS players ending up late 2nd round picks or undrafted and having very short, unsuccessful careers.

Id really like to know if it’s just “empirical data”... as in we cherry pick our memory to find rare instances it happens and believe it happens more often than it does.

Just some names I can think of: Jamaal Williams (GB), Damien Harris (NE), Gus Edwards (Balt), a reformed/behaved Kareem Hunt (Cle), Benny Snell (Pit), Royce Freeman (Den), Latavius Murray (NO).... even lesser options like Bo Scarborough (Det), Brian Hill (Atl) would fill most of that role and the rest could be picked up by Bowden/Richard.

 

On the first topic, I think a lot of it is perception driven. A blue chipper playing at a high level as a freshman is noticeable. But a lot of guys play at a high level in college that couldn't make a practice squad. Freshman just tend to stand out. Cases I've seen typically involve a degradation of efficiency where their stock is always boosted by that 1 great year and excuses for why their play diminishes get made left and right. By the time they reach the bigs, they either get exposed as just not the talent they were thought of or they tend to get lazy and try to skirt by on their reputation. Think Christian Hackenberg, dude was the ish his freshman year according to many. His draft stock didn't stick, but the reputation was salvaged enough to get a crack at a roster...and he clearly shouldn't have even gotten that lol. 

I think Fournette is one of those who benefited from a good program at LSU, but maximized his potential at a level acceptable for a rookie and 2nd year pro, but isn't a long term workhorse. I also think he bought his own hype, even though it's clear he isn't some second coming of Emmit Smith or LaDanian Tomlinson who can carry a bad team to at least mediocrity on his talent alone. We see it- guys who ball out despite the odds and get the Joe Thomas treatment of "man he deserves better, he's uber talented and it's undeniable". We've seen RBs carry terrible teams because they're THAT good. Fournette, I think, believes he is that and can't accept that he isn't. 

On the topic of potentially available RBs, gimme Freeman all day long. I don't know that he'll ever be a franchise type- and we don't need that. He got passed up by Lindsay (who is really good too, so no indictment per se on Royce). Then they added Gordon. He seems like a guy who could be a solid 2 just lost in the shuffle. Think Steve Breaston playing 3rd fiddle to Fitzgerald and Boldin- he was probably a very capable #2, particularly early on, but he was stuck behind 2 guys who were just that good. Doesn't mean he was necessarily a #3 or 4 at best, ya know? I think that could be Freeman, and he definitely fits the mold of what we lack (at least on paper). 

I feel the same way about Williams and Edwards, btw, but I think Freeman is the most likely to come easiest of the bunch just based on their respective situations. I can just see him being available before the other two. 

[jimkelly02]

8 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

On the first topic, I think a lot of it is perception driven. A blue chipper playing at a high level as a freshman is noticeable. But a lot of guys play at a high level in college that couldn't make a practice squad. Freshman just tend to stand out. Cases I've seen typically involve a degradation of efficiency where their stock is always boosted by that 1 great year and excuses for why their play diminishes get made left and right. By the time they reach the bigs, they either get exposed as just not the talent they were thought of or they tend to get lazy and try to skirt by on their reputation. Think Christian Hackenberg, dude was the ish his freshman year according to many. His draft stock didn't stick, but the reputation was salvaged enough to get a crack at a roster...and he clearly shouldn't have even gotten that lol. 

I think Fournette is one of those who benefited from a good program at LSU, but maximized his potential at a level acceptable for a rookie and 2nd year pro, but isn't a long term workhorse. I also think he bought his own hype, even though it's clear he isn't some second coming of Emmit Smith or LaDanian Tomlinson who can carry a bad team to at least mediocrity on his talent alone. We see it- guys who ball out despite the odds and get the Joe Thomas treatment of "man he deserves better, he's uber talented and it's undeniable". We've seen RBs carry terrible teams because they're THAT good. Fournette, I think, believes he is that and can't accept that he isn't. 

On the topic of potentially available RBs, gimme Freeman all day long. I don't know that he'll ever be a franchise type- and we don't need that. He got passed up by Lindsay (who is really good too, so no indictment per se on Royce). Then they added Gordon. He seems like a guy who could be a solid 2 just lost in the shuffle. Think Steve Breaston playing 3rd fiddle to Fitzgerald and Boldin- he was probably a very capable #2, particularly early on, but he was stuck behind 2 guys who were just that good. Doesn't mean he was necessarily a #3 or 4 at best, ya know? I think that could be Freeman, and he definitely fits the mold of what we lack (at least on paper). 

I feel the same way about Williams and Edwards, btw, but I think Freeman is the most likely to come easiest of the bunch just based on their respective situations. I can just see him being available before the other two. 

Yeah... I’d agree with all that.  I’d even add some players just are on good teams.... hit their peak very early.... and even though there maxed out people are assuming they’ll continue to develop.

and prolly the biggest factor is heart, maturity, just life in general.  Players can just get caught up in the BS and not work hard anymore, etc.

[RaidersAreOne]

Fwiw Fournette cleared waivers.

[Totty]

46 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said:

Fwiw Fournette cleared waivers.

Wow...

 

Let me ask.. after losing Williams to IR,  should  we have interest in him?  Having a two headed monster at RB would take a lot of pressure off the rookie WRs.  

Edited September 1, 2020 by Totty

[Geezy]

41 minutes ago, Totty said:

Wow...

 

Let me ask.. after losing Williams to IR,  should  we have interest in him?  Having a two headed monster at RB would take a lot of pressure off the rookie WRs.  

ive thought about it, to truly go run heavy behind our OL, and as insurance incase Jacobs goes down(we are SOL if this happens ATM) the thing is Fournette is a diva and after the AB circus i doubt we take a look, thats why i never even mentioned ET3. 

[jimkelly02]

Well somethings gotta give ... we don’t look like a playoff team to me but also not that far off from it.  Make a few moves and it’s possible.  

and this is the make of break/rebuild year. 
 

btw apparently Tennessee still can’t get Clowney in for a physical and is really annoyed and possibly losing interest.

[Totty]

1 hour ago, Geezy said:

ive thought about it, to truly go run heavy behind our OL, and as insurance incase Jacobs goes down(we are SOL if this happens ATM) the thing is Fournette is a diva and after the AB circus i doubt we take a look, thats why i never even mentioned ET3. 

Those two behind our line, the D would be wore completely out by half.  Man that's some serious 3 yards and a pile of dust potential.  They're both fresh because they're getting spelled.  

Enter Ruggs, Edwards, Waller, Witten, Moreau, third and Renfrow.  😳. 

He isn't AB level yet and other teams don't have interest since he cleared waivers.  I am overly interested.  The temptation on a one year prove it deal is immense. 

[drfrey13]

27 minutes ago, Totty said:

Those two behind our line, the D would be wore completely out by half.  Man that's some serious 3 yards and a pile of dust potential.  They're both fresh because they're getting spelled.  

Enter Ruggs, Edwards, Waller, Witten, Moreau, third and Renfrow.  😳. 

He isn't AB level yet and other teams don't have interest since he cleared waivers.  I am overly interested.  The temptation on a one year prove it deal is immense. 

With Williams going down I would not mind signing him for 1 year.  I know I just said I would stay away from him but with very little WRs left to sign I would be okay with taking the chance and just cramming the ball down the other teams throat all day.  When circumstances change you have to re-evaluate.

[agarcia34]

Raiders trade David Sharpe to Washington 

[Humble_Beast]

https://raiderswire.usatoday.com/2020/09/01/raiders-trade-ol-david-sharpe-to-washington-for-2021-sixth-round-pick/