MWil23 Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 28 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Unfortunately I believe that team was actually trying to win. We had the highest paid defense in the league iirc. I’m including draft day and all of the trade backs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 57 minutes ago, SkippyX said: Tanking often works and the Dolphins are absolutely full on 100% tanking: The Sixers were 1 triple bounce away from going to game 7 OT against the NBA champs last year. This was 100% built on tanking. The Penguins got Fleury(1), Crosby(1*(really 2)), and Malkin(2) by tanking. Don't get me started on the Keep the Penguins in Pittsburgh fake lottery to get Crosby to the Penguins (he should have been a Capital) The Astros tanked for several years before their recent resurgence. Suck for Luck absolutely worked for Indy. The NFL should absolutely split the teams in in groups of 8 and hold a lottery for all 4 groups. The Giants winning the Super Bowl in 2007 and 2011 did not mean they had better talent and needed to pick after 16-0 Patriots or the 15-1 Packers. If the point is division of talent as teams need it then getting into the correct box is enough. The worst team doesn't really need or deserve the 1st pick more than the 2nd worst team does. The incentive to tank is too great right now. A lottery will help to fix that. Those are other sports, which aren't comparable, and the Colts didn't tank. They won two of their last three games of the season when there were two other teams with two wins, and almost won the third. I would say the same for the followup examples of just bad teams being bad teams. We've never seen a team intentionally tank in the NFL, as far as I can remember. I'm not convinced we're seeing it now because it requires too many moving parts to all work together against their own interests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 22 minutes ago, SkippyX said: I'm not sure the Browns were actively tanking. They traded their 1s for lots of picks but they thought they were smart enough to get 5 very good players instead of 1 great player. They were clearly wrong, and were bad at drafting, but were they losing on purpose? They also thought Kizer could play and he turned a bad 4-12 team into an 0-16 team. That 0-16 team lost 4 games by 3 points. If you go by unit rankings and point differential, the 2018 Cardinals were a worse team than the 2017 Browns. I will never be able to explain away that Cardinals win in Lambeau last year. I thought the GM all but admitted that it was part of "The Plan". I will say that the coach and team do not tank. The FO forces a tank. Or as they call it, a reboot or restructure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Daniel said: Those are other sports, which aren't comparable, and the Colts didn't tank. They won two of their last three games of the season when there were two other teams with two wins, and almost won the third. I would say the same for the followup examples of just bad teams being bad teams. We've never seen a team intentionally tank in the NFL, as far as I can remember. I'm not convinced we're seeing it now because it requires too many moving parts to all work together against their own interests. The players on the field never tank so that a draft pick can replace them. The Colts FO put their team in a position to lose as much as possible just like this Dolphins team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, SkippyX said: The players on the field never tank so that a draft pick can replace them. The Colts FO put their team in a position to lose as much as possible just like this Dolphins team. The only thing I remember happening was Peyton getting injured. It's possible I'm forgetting, but I don't think the GM did anything to force a tank. I mean, he got fired after that season, so... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Daniel said: The only thing I remember happening was Peyton getting injured. It's possible I'm forgetting, but I don't think the GM did anything to force a tank. I mean, he got fired after that season, so... The Colts did not jettison talent. Manning went down and after 10+ seasons of 12 or more wins and drafting in the bottom all the time, the cupboard was bare. It just lets you know how much Manning did with that talent. Cleveland and Miami have dumped talent for picks and salary cap space. Those were/are FO tanking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 15 minutes ago, Daniel said: We've never seen a team intentionally tank in the NFL, as far as I can remember The 1994 Oilers come to mind - but the tank wasn't exactly for draft slotting (that team ended up drafting Steve McNair, so they didn't fail in that respect). The tank job was to get the Houston Sports Authority to let the Oilers out of their lease to the Astrodome, and paved way for the move to Nashville, Tennessee. Make no mistake, that team was trying to lose out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelonebillsfan Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 I mean I think the draft in general should be done away with, it's an absurd system designed to artificially keep guys in a defacto farm system and keep payroll lower for a bunch of obscenely wealthy billionaires who already make money hand over fist from the NFL. That said no, the draft lottery sucks in the NBA and doesn't dissuade tanking there either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Daniel said: The only thing I remember happening was Peyton getting injured. It's possible I'm forgetting, but I don't think the GM did anything to force a tank. I mean, he got fired after that season, so... He had surgery in May and their decision to deal with that was to sign a 39 year old Kerry Collins who was 2-11 over 13 starts the previous 2 years. Another QB was Curtis Painter, a 6th round pick in 2009 who was 8 for 28 as a Colt with a 9.8 rating up until then. The other guy who started for them had one previous stop... wait ... for .... it ........... Dan Orlovsky who was 0-7 for the 0-16 Lions in his only other playing experience before 2011. His resume says TANK. We call that tanking. Edited September 12, 2019 by SkippyX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 54 minutes ago, SkippyX said: You are an optimist if you think playtime in Miami with that team is going to make Rosen a better QB. A team that bad should be looking to get a great QB out of their draft slot, not ruining a guy who was already partially ruined last year. All playtime is not equal. Playing no matter what the circumstance is always better than not playing. You gain valauble experience. What is he learning on the bench? What was the point of trading for him? You’re doing this whole “youth movement” but starting an old *** QB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 On 9/11/2019 at 9:07 AM, Boltstrikes said: While I don’t agree that Miami is tanking, I do like the idea of a lottery. Sometimes the worst team in the league doesn’t end up with the worst record. It’d be nice to add some randomness to the draft order. I’ve seen a more obvious example of tanking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 13 minutes ago, SkippyX said: He had surgery in May and their decision to deal with that was to sign a 39 year old Kerry Collins who was 2-11 over 13 starts the previous 2 years. Another QB was Curtis Painter, a 6th round pick in 2009 who was 8 for 28 as a Colt with a 9.8 rating up until then. The other guy who started for them had one previous stop... wait ... for .... it ........... Dan Orlovsky who was 0-7 for the 0-16 Lions in his only other playing experience before 2011. His resume says TANK. We call that tanking. You can call that tanking if you legitimately think Polian wanted to get himself fired, and that they tried to self sabotage their own tank at the end of the season. The evidence doesn't bear that out. Peyton Manning was the core of the franchise, and he carried a weak team for years. They were just legitimately bad. Collins wasn't as bad as that, since he was on a terrible Titans team, and technically, that was his record as a starter, but if you actually use the games where he threw the majority of the passes those two seasons, it becomes 4-13 on terrible teams, 3-7 the season before. They had a young QB they had drafted, a proven vet, and another vet. Not like they could sign someone to a multiyear contract when, at the season's beginning, at least, they were expecting to get Manning back on the team after he sat a year, even if there were good vets on the market that would be willing to come to a team QBed by Peyton Manning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 No to a draft lottery like the NBA cause that is highly highly rigged. I don’t mind a lottery of the Top 3 teams. Team 1 having a 65% chance, team 2 with a 20% chance and team 3 with 15%. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajayii Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 3 hours ago, CP3MVP said: You are wasting time with fitz. Rosen should get EVERY snap this season. I'd have to disagree. After watching that Baltimore game, Fitzy is the better choice simply because he's a magician while avoiding pressure and extending the play. This may not always work, see the Earl Thomas pick, but I'd take that over Rosen getting sacked an extra two or three times because he can't sense pressure. I will say that Josh looked improved in this aspect during the preseason so maybe they want to work him into the rotation later on in the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 33 minutes ago, BayRaider said: No to a draft lottery like the NBA cause that is highly highly rigged. I don’t mind a lottery of the Top 3 teams. Team 1 having a 65% chance, team 2 with a 20% chance and team 3 with 15%. I would be OK with this, and ONLY this. I'd probably be willing to give each team an equal chance, 33% across the board too. I'd also hold the lottery live - immediately before the draft. Goodell welcomes everyone, they bring up the lottery machine, and pick right then and there for 1.1 (every remaining round would be unaltered). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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