Mind Character Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 (edited) There's a reason why Brees, Ryan, and Brady went to 3DQB off-season after off-season after off-season. There's a reason why they and others seek out and go other places to speed up the leaps in their QB skills development and overall athlete, diet, mind-body development. The off-season grind is where greatness is forged. The sacrifices and time invested in becoming the best total athlete are what separates average from great/elite. I don't think Baker has what it takes in terms of maturity and self-awareness to pursue truly becoming that next level athlete or QB. As a result, we have to adjust accordingly and build the team with his ceiling in mind as we should've approached it from the beginning. Just finished Baker's presser today...Pressers are pressers but sometimes they are windows into mentalities of players/coaches. Uhhhh..... Oooooff... I don't know about Baker fellas... I'm not all that confident Baker has the awareness and humbleness to seek out the help he needs to take the next step as a QB.. He was specifically asked about getting together with a "QB coach" this off-season" to improve and whether he was open to it. He said "No...(other things said)... I don't need someone to teach me how to do a 3-step drop." He also still equates those QB coaches to essentially "I don't need to go on a beach.. have someone film my feet and swim in order to figure out how to play Quarterback" (paraphrase). He downplays that elite QB trainers do more than just non-important stupid stuff. He talks about how he can do it himself and critique himself. Then, when he probably heard his own bluster he goes on about how he's got help from others in the organization and realizes he doesn't know everything then he ends with more bluster. You don't know what you don't know. You can't trust yourself at 24 years old to watch your own tape and figure out all the ways you need to improve on your own. It's narcissistic and ill-informed. The problem with Baker is that he doesn't know what he doesn't know and he's sees it as a devaluation of himself to reach out for expertise to hasten his development The manner in which he thinks he's too good or too knowledgeable or too self-capable that he doesn't need to work with an intensive QB skills development coach the way that Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Matthew Stafford, John Elway, Deshaun Watson, Lamar Jackson, and even Brett Favre knew they needed to. Imagine being a 24 year old in the game seeing Rodgers, Brees, and Brady seek out QB training help in the off-season and deciding "F-that ... I'll do it on my own." Lol. It's an alarming sign and ultimately doesn't bode well for his development that he thinks he can do it by himself. That he thinks he can look at his drop and decide to change his punch drop on his own to something else or whatever. There's a reason all great QBs seek out and find experts to speed up their development and improvement in the off-season and I'm not just talking about QB gurus alone. Even Hue sent the rookie QBs to see Tom House and Adam Dedeaux to get in the mindset of off-season leaps and alternative perspectives on all things quarterbacking. If Freddie returns, I wonder if he'll suggest Baker go or find someone. Problem is... everything around Baker is buddy buddy and the brain trust around him (Garrett Gilbert, Ryan Lindley, Freddie, Drew Stanton) aren't likely to be the one's to get him to the next level or to get him to realize he has to go after it a different way. Baker from his public comments thinks the issue is OTAs and whatever else he figures out from the tape. At this point, I don't think we can trust that Baker will take the next steps or giant leaps he needs to be elite; however, if we improve the things around him he still may be able to take us where we want to go as many lesser than elite QBs have gone to that place as well. After that presser, I'm done with it. I'm going back to my original eval and what I said from the beginning: "He's a trailer not a tractor. Surround him with an elite OLine and elite skill players. We'll know what he is around 50 starts in. He'll be a good player but never a transcendent one." Edited December 27, 2019 by Mind Character 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Johnson Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 (edited) We don't need Baker to be the tracter instead of the trailer. I'll take somebody who can make all the throws and be deadly accurate when the offense suits him. That beats the hell out of being in QB purgatory starting smart guys with noodle arms (Kessler, Hogan, Hoyer) or who are dunderheads with no accuracy (Weeden, Kizer). Or any of the other combination of deadly deficiencies we've had to put up with. Baker is the only QB we've had that I've thought could be good on another team, we just have to do what those other teams would do with Baker. Instead we promoted our RBs coach to HC and gutted the rest of the staff that he looked half decent with. Please Dorsey and Haslem bring somebody with some flexibility and intelligence. Edited December 27, 2019 by Rod Johnson 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 16 hours ago, bruceb said: This season should have been a huge wake up call for him but to my knowledge he has yet to define, take ownership of and embrace corrective action addressing the root causes of his poor performance. Until he does all that significant improvement is unlikely. Well I think it will be a wake up call to know what to do in the offseason. I don’t care what he say or doesn’t say to media. The media has been crap to this team 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 I honestly think the way things went. How he prepared going into his rookie year and the draft. That he prolly did a lot of similar things thinking there would be the same results. Prolly thought with Freddie as the coach things prolly will pick up where they left off, and that great things will happen with the addition of OBJ. Like he said, taking ownership that him and the team thought it was going to be easy and it wasnt. I think he will take his offseason a lot more serious than last year and hopefully, more serious than he has ever taken an offseason. I think after his rookie year performance, he lost that chip. I think the way he played and how the media has fallen out of love with him and the team, he is going to be regaining that chip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 2 hours ago, buno67 said: I honestly think the way things went. How he prepared going into his rookie year and the draft. That he prolly did a lot of similar things thinking there would be the same results. Prolly thought with Freddie as the coach things prolly will pick up where they left off, and that great things will happen with the addition of OBJ. Like he said, taking ownership that him and the team thought it was going to be easy and it wasnt. I think he will take his offseason a lot more serious than last year and hopefully, more serious than he has ever taken an offseason. I think after his rookie year performance, he lost that chip. I think the way he played and how the media has fallen out of love with him and the team, he is going to be regaining that chip I think that he is stupid: https://sports.yahoo.com/browns-baker-mayfield-declares-he-wont-work-with-throwing-coach-in-offseason-195337203.html He doesn't know what he doesn't know and he doesn't understand what it takes to be a top pro. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownLeader Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 23 hours ago, Mind Character said: The manner in which he thinks he's too good or too knowledgeable or too self-capable that he doesn't need to work with an intensive QB skills development coach the way that Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Matthew Stafford, John Elway, Deshaun Watson, Lamar Jackson, and even Brett Favre knew they needed to. Imagine being a 24 year old in the game seeing Rodgers, Brees, and Brady seek out QB training help in the off-season and deciding "F-that ... I'll do it on my own." Lol. The precise argument Dorsey and whoever else the coach is need to be making to him. If he still doesn't do it you make sure you sign a guy that could actually beat him out in camp. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 6 hours ago, bruceb said: I think that he is stupid: https://sports.yahoo.com/browns-baker-mayfield-declares-he-wont-work-with-throwing-coach-in-offseason-195337203.html He doesn't know what he doesn't know and he doesn't understand what it takes to be a top pro. why does he need to work with a private throwing coach tho? The Elite QBs arent elite because they work with a private throwing a coach. a lot of QBs work with throwing coaches and they arent becoming studs like Brady, Brees, and etc. House, the guy who works with brady worked with the likes of Bortles, Tebow, Kessler and it didnt make those guys any better of QBs. Lets see what he actually does and see what he looks like when he comes into the OTAs and training camp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, buno67 said: why does he need to work with a private throwing coach tho? The Elite QBs arent elite because they work with a private throwing a coach. a lot of QBs work with throwing coaches and they arent becoming studs like Brady, Brees, and etc. House, the guy who works with brady worked with the likes of Bortles, Tebow, Kessler and it didnt make those guys any better of QBs. Lets see what he actually does and see what he looks like when he comes into the OTAs and training camp It's not about Baker needing a "throwing coach." Categorizing what the elite QB trainers do as just a "throwing coach" is complete miscategorization. It's about rigorously conditioning the mind, body, and spirit of the athlete to accelerate their development. There are many agencies that do it differently than 3DQB with some QBs believing that other QB performance agencies are even better but all have a depth of knowledge on advanced drill sets, biomechanics analysis and training, mental and psychological development, sleep and diet integration, and tieing eyes to defensive understanding. Tiger Woods has enough knowledge and expertise to be an elite Swinging Coach, but he has a swinging coach. Why doesn't he just fix his swinging problems on his own? In truth, he does as the swinging coach helps the golfer lead their own problem-solving of their issues on their own while also providing expert analysis, motivation, and solutions for sustaining and changing the swing when they are around. This is what Drew Brees and Tom Brady said about their numerous off-season's at 3DQB in his book: "He (House) didn't just deal with the physical; he worked on the whole person - the mental and emotional components as well. He tackled everything from sleep patterns and diet to attitude and awareness. I had the will, I had the desire, and I wasn't afraid of hard work. I just needed method - and someone to help me map it out. I sat down with Tom, and he understood immediately what I wanted to do. I went in with good footwork; I came out with exceptional, repeatable footwork. My drop mechanics and arm angles became more proficient. You are only as strong as your weakest link. Pretty amazing that the guy could identify a lot of my problems just by looking at my posture. The team put me through drills to expand my responsiveness to defensive manipulations of a QBs mindset. As I headed to training camp for that season, I wasn't going to show up as the same player. I was coming back stronger and better than ever."-- Drew Brees Tom Brady: "Over the years, I was a little inefficient and I learned how to get away with it. I've been working with Tom House on what's called ground-force production... Kinetic sequencing, getting the power from the ground, which translates from the ground to your legs, to your hips, to the shoulder, and all the energy is going toward the target. I've always had confidence throwing the football, but you have to stay on top of it. That's going to be a never-ending quest for me. But right now, I am more confident than ever."--Tom Brady ----- You can cherry pick Kessler but know this Cody Kessler lost 10pounds of fat and put on 8 pounds of muscle. He was in the best shape of his life. Mentally and mechanically he was the best QB he had been. He had a new 2nd round rookie on his heels with more arm talent and an organization highly motivated to play that QB. Cody never got a chance to start and by all reports succumbed to the pressure of the QB competition. Tebow's mechanics got light-years better and he went 7-4 with a playoff birth totaling 12 TDs; 6 INTs his second year in the league. He was basically black-balled from the league due to the media circus around him and after some injury at the Jets he was never given another shot in the league. Bortles was a disaster mechanically and decision-making wise before he went to see them. In his own words, he only went out there for a week not enough time for anything to likely take hold given how much of mess Bortles was. The point is Baker overall doesn't have the proper growth mindset to at this point in his career rebuking ways of improvement that have served many great QBs well. As human beings, improving ourselves can often be impossible as we are restrained by our own blindspots and working by oneself to improve can often lead to self-motivation issues. The Elite QB performance trainers layout a detailed plan of accelerated growth, train the mind-body, and instill a new mindset that will aid development even after leaving them. Edited December 28, 2019 by Mind Character 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 We need to redo everything around Baker, challenge him, make him uncomfortable, make him compete, and surround him with elite workers and elite QB developers. Lost in the shuffle is the manner in which Tyrod Taylor pushed Baker all last season. From the outset, Tyrod's professionalism and relentless work ethic won the day as his 5am routine forced Baker to elevate his daily preparation in order to compete with Tyrod. Baker didn't like when Hue pointed out that everything was a competition with Tyrod and that Baker needed to get a preparation routine that challenged Tyrod. Even when Baker got the starting nod, he knew that Tyrod was challenging him in the meeting rooms and that he had to maintain a high level of preparation. This organization in my mind made the terrible mistake of making everything around Baker buddy buddy and not truly challenging him with any competition or high-level QBs in the room that had elite routines. Chase Daniels makes tons of money as a backup because of his time with Drew Brees has led to an Elite routine and approach that helps both develop, challegne, and support the starting QB on the team. Drew Stanton isn't that. Brother of Baker's good friend, Garrett Gilbert isn't that either. Ryan Lindley is at the beginning of his NFL career and is more motivated to keep his job than to push Baker into uncomfortable situations. Lindley, Stanton, and Gilbert all had horrendously lazy footwork as players. None of them were known for any elite routine and drilling. None of them were accurate QBs. None of them had good eye discipline or were able to process defensive pre and post snap efficiently. A lot of times coaches are better than what they were as players and you can't judge a coach on their ability as a player. In Lindley's case, his public comments and Baker regressions all point to the fact that he doesn't have it as a high-level QB coach. We need to cut both Stanton and Gilbert. Baker won't like either of the moves. We need to get rid of Ryan Lindley. We need to pay big $ for an elite working habits QB that can challenge Baker's work habits and leadership while having the personality that won't threaten Baker or lead to confrontation. I think that QB is Marcus Mariota. We have to find a new QB coach. Hopefully, we can get a Joe Lombardi, Mike Kafka, Greg Knapp, Rich Scangarello, or Jim Caldwell. The Third QB in the room with Baker and Mariota would then be a more grizzled veteran to take on more deep mentorship like a Matt Moore-type. Replacing Freddie with a Head Coach that seeks to challenge Baker more and give him more expert knowledge on all things being a pro. QB Room: Baker Mayfield, Marcus Mariota, Matt Moore // QB Coach & OC: Joe Lombardi, Mike Kafka, or Greg Knapp. Those would be better environments for Baker than the one we have now imo. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 I read that whole last post. Im exhausted. But Mind is right. Baker isn’t getting it and we’ve made things too easy for him. And the fact he scoffs at training with someone like House who is a proven entity and respected and utilized by HoFers is mind blowing. I’ve long thought the kid was opinionated, but generally “got it”. This contradicts that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 51 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: I read that whole last post. Im exhausted. But Mind is right. Baker isn’t getting it and we’ve made things too easy for him. And the fact he scoffs at training with someone like House who is a proven entity and respected and utilized by HoFers is mind blowing. I’ve long thought the kid was opinionated, but generally “got it”. This contradicts that. That is all true but we are knocking him down before the offseason has even started and we’re already predicting what he will be doing or treating the offseason. We are putting the cart way, way ahead of the cart. the dude didn’t just luck into being one of the best college QBs the past 20years and having a good rookie year. baker has been one of the most competitive guys, I doubt he is just going to stop being that. Let’s see how things play out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 9 minutes ago, buno67 said: We are putting the cart way, way ahead of the cart. You’re just horsing around. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 29 minutes ago, buno67 said: That is all true but we are knocking him down before the offseason has even started and we’re already predicting what he will be doing or treating the offseason. We are putting the cart way, way ahead of the cart. No is predicting anything, he stated his intentions specifically. Quote the dude didn’t just luck into being one of the best college QBs the past 20years and having a good rookie year. This ain’t college man. I don’t think I need to explain that any further. Quote baker has been one of the most competitive guys, I doubt he is just going to stop being that. Let’s see how things play out. Being competitive and being humble enough to seek out others to help you succeed aren’t the same thing. Neither is being smart enough to know what you need. Based on some of his comments this past few months, I think his general awareness and intelligence should be questioned as well. I think the kid has all the ability in the world and can be elite if he wants to be, but “I can film myself and fix it” stinks of overconfidence and naïveté. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Bonanza23 said: You’re just horsing around. 😡 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: I read that whole last post. Im exhausted. Indeed, that 2 minute read was a mountain to climb. I miss the good old days back when you would quickly scroll past my trash, long posts in disgust... ... we were younger then ... Edited December 28, 2019 by Mind Character 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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