GDT 6 Browns vs. the Neon Pigeons, or get me to the bye week already

[candyman93]

What I’m about to say will rub some people the wrong way. It’s not me trying to be a hot take artist. My biggest concern with the team is something that will not be fixed: Our players do not have high football IQ’s or toughness.

 

Now that doesn’t mean that I think they’re dumb or slow. They just cannot process nfl speed right now and it’s a really big problem. It’s the fatal flaw in Sashi Browns grand scheme. You need savvy and tough veterans that will call out guys like Greedy and Denzel.

 

I’m watching Pittsburgh vs LA right now. The Chargers have significantly better talent and the Steelers are on a 3rd string QB. Yet the Steelers are out muscling the Chargers. That’s what happens when you have intelligence and toughness. 2 attributes this team doesn’t have.

 

We have too many soft kids that would rather rest or make business decisions than make the tough plays that win you games. What’s the point of resting if your season is constantly ending early?

Edited October 14, 2019 by candyman93

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

6 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

True.

But anyone criticizing Baker as playing poorly "just" b/c of the boxscore INTs likely isn't a person watching closely or with a thoughtful opinion in the first place.

He's been unlucky for sure but his poor play goes beyond tipped catch picks. There's some room for subjectivity with TWP as the PFF guys have discussed on a few of their past 3 yotube episodes.

There's also a difference between a tipped catch like we saw with Hilliard which to me is more catchable and a tipped catch like we saw with Callaway which is more uncatchable.

Like Callaway's pick. It looks completely different in slow motion than in real time for a lot of people. To me, that's not a catchable pass as it was at was a fastball below his knees behind him on a dead sprint in route. Maybe a handful of elite WRs are catching that and they likely miss that catch given a few times at it. The slow motion doesn't take into account the speed and pace the ball was thrown with and where Callaway was at the point of contact.

Callaway is paid millions to catch that and we should hope that he would, but the real point for him is that he could've settled down in that zone or got his eyes to the QB earlier.

What Calloway drop are you talking about?  Last week?

[Mind Character]

9 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

What Calloway drop are you talking about?  Last week?

 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

5 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

 

Yeah , that one ain’t on Baker in my book.

Make a damned play.

[Mind Character]

20 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Yeah , that one ain’t on Baker in my book.

Make a damned play.

Takes 2 to make a play. It's on Callaway to make a play. It's on Baker to be accurate.

It's on them both. Most give Baker a pass on that one. To me, that's a bad low, behind, fastball. Callaway has to make that play. He's paid millions of dollars to make it, but I just don't see how that's not on Baker at all.

[Don Roshi]

48 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

What I’m about to say will rub some people the wrong way. It’s not me trying to be a hot take artist. My biggest concern with the team is something that will not be fixed: Our players do not have high football IQ’s or toughness.

 

Now that doesn’t mean that I think they’re dumb or slow. They just cannot process nfl speed right now and it’s a really big problem. It’s the fatal flaw in Sashi Browns grand scheme. You need savvy and tough veterans that will call out guys like Greedy and Denzel.

 

I’m watching Pittsburgh vs LA right now. The Chargers have significantly better talent and the Steelers are on a 3rd string QB. Yet the Steelers are out muscling the Chargers. That’s what happens when you have intelligence and toughness. 2 attributes this team doesn’t have.

 

We have too many soft kids that would rather rest or make business decisions than make the tough plays that win you games. What’s the point of resting if your season is constantly ending early?

Hopefully it's something that will come in time. A long tenured GM and HC would go a long way to addressing this. It will give us an identity. Players will have a stronger grasp on what is expected of them. We just have to be patient.

Tanking for multiple years is not a good strategy (especially in the NFL).

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

13 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

Takes 2 to make a play. It's on Callaway to make a play. It's on Baker to be accurate.

It's on them both. Most give Baker a pass on that one. To me, that's a bad low, behind, fastball. Callaway has to make that play. He's paid millions of dollars to make it, but I just don't see how that's not on Baker at all.

You’re conflating my point.  I never said it was a great throw, but rather good enough to make the play.

Imo a QB has to give the receiver a chance to make a play. In the NFL windows are narrow and you don’t have clean pockets or all day to get rid of the ball.  With that some balls are going to be slightly off.  It’s up to the receivers to make those plays.

If the receiver has a decent opportunity to catch the pass, like 2 hands on the ball for example, that’s on them.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

 

2 minutes ago, Don Roshi said:

We just have to be patient.

This is what fans here don’t grasp.  They think because they’ve had to wait they’ve been patient.

You can’t reboot every other year and call yourself patient.

[Bonanza23]

20 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

Takes 2 to make a play. It's on Callaway to make a play. It's on Baker to be accurate.

It's on them both. Most give Baker a pass on that one. To me, that's a bad low, behind, fastball. Callaway has to make that play. He's paid millions of dollars to make it, but I just don't see how that's not on Baker at all.

Yeah bull****. It wasn’t quite accurate but that’s completely on Callaway. My buddy’s daughter could make that catch. 
 

holy hell @sdrawkcab321 could make that play. And he’s a pessimist. 

[buno67]

2 hours ago, Mind Character said:

True.

But anyone criticizing Baker as playing poorly "just" b/c of the boxscore INTs likely isn't a person watching closely or with a thoughtful opinion in the first place.

He's been unlucky for sure but his poor play goes beyond tipped catch picks. There's some room for subjectivity with TWP as the PFF guys have discussed on a few of their past 3 yotube episodes.

There's also a difference between a tipped catch like we saw with Hilliard which to me is more catchable and a tipped catch like we saw with Callaway which is more uncatchable.

Like Callaway's pick. It looks completely different in slow motion than in real time for a lot of people. To me, that's not a catchable pass as it was at was a fastball below his knees behind him on a dead sprint in route. Maybe a handful of elite WRs are catching that and they likely miss that catch given a few times at it. The slow motion doesn't take into account the speed and pace the ball was thrown with and where Callaway was at the point of contact.

Callaway is paid millions to catch that and we should hope that he would, but the real point for him is that he could've settled down in that zone or got his eyes to the QB earlier.

 

the ball literally hit Callaway in the hands and the chest. Yes it was a tough catch but we are acting like it was horrible ball placement. Not the greatest but when the ball hits a WR like that, they should catch it. Sorry

[BrownLeader]

3 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

You’re conflating my point.  I never said it was a great throw, but rather good enough to make the play.

Imo a QB has to give the receiver a chance to make a play. In the NFL windows are narrow and you don’t have clean pockets or all day to get rid of the ball.  With that some balls are going to be slightly off.  It’s up to the receivers to make those plays.

If the receiver has a decent opportunity to catch the pass, like 2 hands on the ball for example, that’s on them.

Out of context of how Baker's been throwing this year, this is spot on. 

But in context, Baker's been having a really tough time with his accuracy and timing this year. His chemistry with Odell has been dreadful and probably cost us this game. Almost everything to him is high and hard, behind or way short.

That ball Beckham dug out of the ground in this one was an incredible catch. He's rarely given Odell a good ball....when he's actually seen him open, which hasn't been enough.

That int to Jarvis in the end zone was a terrible throw behind him and the turning point in the game. He was open but had no chance to catch it. 

Looking at that throw, and all the throws behind and around Beckham, the throw to Callaway looks a little different. 

Callaway gears down to adjust to a throw that's low and behind him. It's the only reason he gets as much of his hands on it. A good hands guy makes that catch 8 out of 10 but AC isn't a hands guy.

Overall I don't think it's as much bad luck as just throwing with pace and poor ball placement is going to lead to a lot of tips and drops.

And the biggest danger is if Odell and Jarvis start quietly turning on Baker. That would implode the team.

[Notasouthernbelle]

1. A wide receiver can't catch a ball accurately if it isn't thrown to him accurately.  Baker's throws have been off, especially to OBJ. I honestly think it's because OBJ and Baker hasn't had much time to build a connection. OBJ missed all of (he went like 2 days I believe) otas, that was definitely a time to build that chemistry.

2. The players are human and will make mistakes. Callaway should've caught that ball. Baker needs to be more accurate.

[bungleodeon]

9 hours ago, freakygeniuskid said:

Just finished watching the replay on gamepass.

#$<% the zebras. That's a win with slightly more even officiating. The roughing on Ogunjobi was bull. The holds they called on us went uncalled the other way all day. And Garrett wasn't offsides on his second sack.

I hate complaining about the refs, because the deflected picks and the Chubb fumble were huge, but I'm getting sick and #$%^ing tired of 2v1 games.

that PI was a terrible call as well.

[candyman93]

I can honestly say I haven’t blamed officiating too much this year. They’ve made some bad calls.

 

Today, there’s some dudes who need fired after yesterday.

 

I do think there is some point shaving + refs just not liking how much talk the Browns received.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

21 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

I can honestly say I haven’t blamed officiating too much this year. They’ve made some bad calls.

 

Today, there’s some dudes who need fired after yesterday.

 

I do think there is some point shaving + refs just not liking how much talk the Browns received.

You’re giving them far too much credit.

They’re simply making bad calls in real time (they don’t get the benefit of replay like we do) and we’re forced to live with what they saw (or think they saw).