the green bay packers vefrsus the detroit loins 2019 MNF (week 5): the return of the incomparable tony brown PART DEUX

[Sasquatch]

On a different note, we should rename Lambeau Field to Lambeau Mausoleum.  House of the Dead Quiet.  World's Largest Senior Center.  Home field advantage is non-existent.  The flickering lights during a score are a Last Call or Closing Time.  Maybe we need to bus in some inmates from the penitentiary to spice things up in there.

Joking aside, because I do love the "family values" of our crowd, I don't think flickering lights are getting people ramped up and loud - enough to be a real advantage for our home team.  Anyone else got any ideas on how to manufacture some life and noise in the joint?  

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

1 minute ago, incognito_man said:

Your point about the NFL speaking out about it is simply a symptom of the environment created by Booger controlling the narrative. Without the drummed up and feigned outraged, the NFL doesn't issue a statement.

Oh man. I just... I completely disagree, and I think the fact that the NFL has released numerous statements admitting fault in the past disputes your point.

Regardless, as a fan of football, doesn't it bother you that a game was ended due to a wrong call? Whenever my team benefits from a bad call, it pisses me off. (Then again, we're not exactly familiar with sustained success.)

[Uffdaswede]

1 minute ago, Sasquatch said:

On a different note, we should rename Lambeau Field to Lambeau Mausoleum.  House of the Dead Quiet.  World's Largest Senior Center.  Home field advantage is non-existent.  The flickering lights during a score are a Last Call or Closing Time.  Maybe we need to bus in some inmates from the penitentiary to spice things up in there.

Joking aside, because I do love the "family values" of our crowd, I don't think flickering lights are getting people ramped up and loud - enough to be a real advantage for our home team.  Anyone else got any ideas on how to manufacture some life and noise in the joint?  

Wisconsin people are polite. I went to see TranSiberian Orchestra and the performers were begging the crowd of gray haired ladies in Christmas sweaters to give them something, anything...so the crowd smiled harder.

I don't mind that we're not the loudest at Lambeau, but it bugs me to see beach balls bouncing around or to hear it reported that the crowds cheer just as loudish when our team is on offense--certainly we should expect a better level of fan competence than that.

[HighCalebR]

2 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

I think you're giving Booger way too much credit. Any wrong call that ends a football game will receive national attention, just as they have numerous times this year and 

But now its "TWO blatantly missed calls that even dumb Booger knows arent penalties!"

"The NFL said one wasnt a penalty but of course theyd say that, have to cover their tracks"

If Booger doesn't go on his tirades about missed calls the last play is scrutinized, sure, it doesnt get this much attention though. "They guy has played all year and gets 2 of these phantom calls? Suspect" - Ross Tucker. Now that narrative changes to "oh, he got one of those earlier. He should be more aware of that hand being up there" wrong call sure, but it's close with how hes been playing. 

Does Flowers only have 1 move? You've been flagged by that referee once for that move, controversial or not, wouldnt you try to do something else on one of the games most important downs?

[incognito_man]

4 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Oh man. I just... I completely disagree, and I think the fact that the NFL has released numerous statements admitting fault in the past disputes your point.

Regardless, as a fan of football, doesn't it bother you that a game was ended due to a wrong call? Whenever my team benefits from a bad call, it pisses me off. (Then again, we're not exactly familiar with sustained success.)

Sure, but there's a difference between a bad call and a bad decision by refs. Bad decisions that end games are far, far worse. Bad calls (in slow-mo hindsight) are justifiable. It absolutely looked like an egregious penalty in real time. From his view, it was a penalty and it's completely justifiable why he threw the flag. It wasn't a bad decision on his part, especially because Flowers had been doing it all game.

An infraction is an infraction whether it's one minute into the game or 59. Timing doesn't matter. I'm not more upset if a game ends with a bad call than if it starts with one, both can be equally impactful. It's just under more scrutiny because most people are more revved up at the end.

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

1 minute ago, HighCalebR said:

Does Flowers only have 1 move? You've been flagged by that referee once for that move, controversial or not, wouldnt you try to do something else on one of the games most important downs?

Flowers has played 51 games throughout his career and, prior to Monday night, had been called for "illegal hands to the face"... 0 times. He does that move because it's part of his skillset: he doesn't have elite speed, but his strength and playing style make it extremely effective.

He shouldn't have to "do another move" for fear that the refs will make a bad call. No player should.

[HighCalebR]

3 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Flowers has played 51 games throughout his career and, prior to Monday night, had been called for "illegal hands to the face"... 0 times. He does that move because it's part of his skillset: he doesn't have elite speed, but his strength and playing style make it extremely effective.

He shouldn't have to "do another move" for fear that the refs will make a bad call. No player should.

Yupp and he got 1 legit one earlier in the night and you agree it was the right call?

Take the variable out of it. The ref was calling it now. Switch it up.

The move wasnt working all night anyway.

Edited October 16, 2019 by HighCalebR

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

2 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Sure, but there's a difference between a bad call and a bad decision by refs. Bad decisions that end games are far, far worse. Bad calls (in slow-mo hindsight) are justifiable. It absolutely looked like an egregious penalty in real time. From his view, it was a penalty and it's completely justifiable why he threw the flag. It wasn't a bad decision on his part, especially because Flowers had been doing it all game.

An infraction is an infraction whether it's one minute into the game or 59. Timing doesn't matter. I'm not more upset if a game ends with a bad call than if it starts with one, both can be equally impactful. It's just under more scrutiny because most people are more revved up at the end.

Interesting take, point understood.

It's my opinion that a bad call and a bad decision are synonymous phrases. I don't buy the "it's a fast game, bad calls happen" line of reasoning, just as I don't give players that make mistakes the "football is a tough sport" excuse. If, in the heat of the moment, a player makes a mistake, he should be criticized, and the officials should be treated the same way. (In my opinion.)

In this instance, Flowers' hand was nowhere near Bakhtiari's face (on the second penalty): he was blatantly grabbing the shoulder and shoving him backwards. That's both legal and effective. The ref doesn't get the benefit of the doubt for ending this game because "football is a fast sport": if he didn't see the hand impact the head or neck, he shouldn't have thrown the flag.

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

4 minutes ago, HighCalebR said:

Yupp and he got 1 legit one earlier in the night and you agree it was the right call?

Take the variable out of it. The ref was calling it now. Switch it up.

The move wasnt working all night anyway.

The first penalty, in which Flowers' was grabbing the pads, was a reasonable penalty to call, as it appeared that Flowers' hand veered up and onto Bakhtiari's helmet.

To your point, Flowers did exactly that: after the first penalty, he grabbed the shoulder instead of grabbing the pads below the helmet. It was a good adjustment, as it clearly wasn't a penalty (the NFL has admitted as much).

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

I will say: Bakhtiari deserves credit here. He went to the refs and told them that he felt Flowers was committing the penalty. After he spoke to the refs, they called it twice. That's a pro move.

[HighCalebR]

3 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

The first penalty, in which Flowers' was grabbing the pads, was a reasonable penalty to call, as it appeared that Flowers' hand veered up and onto Bakhtiari's helmet.

To your point, Flowers did exactly that: after the first penalty, he grabbed the shoulder instead of grabbing the pads below the helmet. It was a good adjustment, as it clearly wasn't a penalty (the NFL has admitted as much).

Understood, dont let the refs have the chance to interfere, Bakhs head went back. The official had been told that Flowers was getting up there. He threw the flag, it's not reviewable. His hand was inside the collar of Bakhs pads, that's preeeeeeeetty close to being neck area. 

It wouldnt have been this scrutinized had Booger not been wrong about the first one. And went on an absolute tirade on the second. 

I was bummed it ended on the call. I was bummed when Golladay wasnt flagged for OPI, I was bummed on the super soft holding on Elgton. Bad calls suck, but they happen in literally every game. This one tilted in the Packers favor for sure.

[Leader]

44 minutes ago, JBURGE said:

You're right, we have had this conversation, where we discussed there was an error with that ticker information. The ball was intercepted on OUR 18 yard line, not Minnesota's. They had 2 timeouts with 1:37 left, so yes, it was unlikely they win. But they had the opportunity to get the ball back with approx 40 seconds left down 8. After all, the Vikings did score a TD on that drive in 1 minute and 6 seconds using 1 timeout, so it's not unreasonable to think they could have scored one in 40 seconds. 

Either way, it was not the same situation as the Lions game. 

Whatever. We'd have had the ball up 8 with around 1:40 left and MN with 2 TOs.

I like our chances better than you do apparently.

As to "what MN might have done..or what was reasonable or unreasonable" - I'll leave that prognosticating to you.

Its the same as "what DET might have done...." - conjuring up what could have been. 

 

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

Just now, HighCalebR said:

Understood, dont let the refs have the chance to interfere, Bakhs head went back. The official had been told that Flowers was getting up there. He threw the flag, it's not reviewable. His hand was inside the collar of Bakhs pads, that's preeeeeeeetty close to being neck area.

I agree on the first one, I do. I agree: it was close to the neck area. Bakhtiari did a smart thing in making the refs aware.

[JBURGE]

3 minutes ago, Leader said:

54 minutes ago, JBURGE said:

You're right, we have had this conversation, where we discussed there was an error with that ticker information. The ball was intercepted on OUR 18 yard line, not Minnesota's. They had 2 timeouts with 1:37 left, so yes, it was unlikely they win. But they had the opportunity to get the ball back with approx 40 seconds left down 8. After all, the Vikings did score a TD on that drive in 1 minute and 6 seconds using 1 timeout, so it's not unreasonable to think they could have scored one in 40 seconds. 

Either way, it was not the same situation as the Lions game. 

Whatever. We'd have had the ball up 8 with around 1:40 left and MN with 2 TOs.

I like our chances better than you do apparently.

As to "what MN might have done..or what was reasonable or unreasonable" - I'll leave that prognosticating to you.

Its the same as "what DET might have done...." - conjuring up what could have been. 

It has nothing to do with what our chance of winning was in that Vikings game. It was probably 98%. The fact was that the Vikings had any chance. The Lions were not given any chance, unless we missed the FG or fumbled a kneel. 

Edited October 16, 2019 by JBURGE

[Leader]

5 minutes ago, JBURGE said:

It has nothing to do with what our chance of winning was in that Vikings game. It was probably 98%. The fact was that the Vikings had any chance. The Lions were not given any chance, unless we missed the FG or fumbled a kneel. 

Simple. They were both late penalty flags that changed the outcome of their games. Done.