the green bay packers vefrsus the detroit loins 2019 MNF (week 5): the return of the incomparable tony brown PART DEUX

[hitnhope]

1 minute ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Do you think that the Packers would have gone for it on 4th down, down by 2 with under 2 minutes left? Answer: of course not.

Assuming that they make the field goal, do you think that the Packers would've attempted an onside kick? Answer: of course not.

So, here's what we know: giving the Packers a first down on a bad call ended the game. No, the Lions weren't guaranteed to win had the Packers made the FG. I don't think anyone is arguing that they undoubtedly would have. That doesn't erase the fact that they didn't get that chance because of an officiating mistake.

There were over 9 minutes left in the game.   We've all seen games where 30 points have been scored in that amount of time.   We don't know.  

So if you want to pull 1 bad call out in isolation of the many opportunities, your argument has some merit.   It is a naïve and childish stance.    The people saying that perhaps the lions should have scored some touchdowns and moved the ball some on offense have a much better argument than those pinning blame on 1 call that was wrong.   It looked correct from where the official was standing, but it was wrong.

Like I said - There are bad calls both ways on both teams every game.   This call for more reviews has made the game worse, not better.   The review process' don't even work.

We were better off when people accepted that some mistakes will be made and moved on in the game.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

23 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

The problem is the GIF is in slow motion and stopped at the moment to create a false impression.  When watched at full speed, it is something that never gets called in the NFL as it is just incidental contact on the second play where he brushes by before setting on the chest.  The first play there is sustained contact by Bahktiari's finger tips on the chin strap, which might get called, but I doubt it.

I don't get what you are looking for here- fans concede that it was a bad call, the nfl concedes it was a bad call.  It happens in football. What is your point?  The Lions aren't the only team to get a bad call at a critical time, nor are the Packers the only team to benefit.

If you just want victim status (good god, help me, I've just gone full Donzo) fine.  Go ahead, wallow in your misery. 

Edited October 16, 2019 by Ragnar Danneskjold
spelling and punctuation

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

Just now, hitnhope said:

There were over 9 minutes left in the game.   We've all seen games where 30 points have been scored in that amount of time.   We don't know.  

So if you want to pull 1 bad call out in isolation of the many opportunities, your argument has some merit.   It is a naïve and childish stance.    The people saying that perhaps the lions should have scored some touchdowns and moved the ball some on offense have a much better argument than those pinning blame on 1 call that was wrong.   It looked correct from where the official was standing, but it was wrong.

Like I said - There are bad calls both ways on both teams every game.   This call for more reviews has made the game worse, not better.   The review process' don't even work.

We were better off when people accepted that some mistakes will be made and moved on in the game.

... what? We're only discussing the second penalty, which happened with under 2 minutes left in the game, and after the Lions had used their timeouts to stop the drive.

[wgbeethree]

1 minute ago, WaitWhat said:

Yup. Packers were literally screwed out of a call that ended the Philly game. Refs call it, we get four more shots to tie that game. Like I said already, nowhere near the national media level of whining as this got. 

Strangely, no mention of the fact the Lions had 75 yards of offense total over three quarters of football or the fact they started in Packers territory twice and ran 8 plays for 10 yards in those two drives. They do anything in just one of those drives, they win. 

This.

I literally didn't come in here for a couple days after the Philly game because I was sure it would be all complaining about the no call. I was pretty impressed it wasn't. We lost that game because we couldn't gain a yard when we had half a dozen chances. That's on us. 

You're up 13-0 in the first quarter and proceed to give up 400+ yards while gaining less than 100 the rest of the game despite a rookie trying to give you the game with two turnovers. If you don't suck you win easy and there's no chance of the refs messing up. Own up to it.

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

Just now, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

The problem is the GIF is in slow motion and stopped at the moment to create a false impression.  When watched at full speed, it is something that never gets called in the NFL as it is just incidental contact on the second play where he brushes by before setting on the chest.  The first play there is sustained contact by Bahktiaris finger tips on the chin strat, which might get called, but I doubt it.

I don't get what you are looking for here- fans concede that it was a bad call, the nfl concedes it was a bad call.  It happens in football. What is your point?  The Lions aren't the only team to get a bad call at a critical time, nor are the Packers the only team to benefit.

If you just want victim status (good god, help me, I've just gone full Donzo) fine.  Go ahead, wallow in your misery. 

Huh? Some mocked the suggestion that Bakhtiari contacted Flowers' facemask. I provided a video that undoubtedly shows that it did.

A few of you guys really confuse me. You registered on a football message board yet seem absolutely shocked when someone wants to have a rational, calm discussion. You seem to not want to discuss things, and, instead of simply clicking away, post responses questioning why others are posting things.

Extremely confusing.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

2 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Huh? Some mocked the suggestion that Bakhtiari contacted Flowers' facemask. I provided a video that undoubtedly shows that it did.

A few of you guys really confuse me. You registered on a football message board yet seem absolutely shocked when someone wants to have a rational, calm discussion. You seem to not want to discuss things, and, instead of simply clicking away, post responses questioning why others are posting things.

Extremely confusing.

But your not raising any new points.

I get that you feel the Lions were screwed.  Why keep bringing it up?

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

1 minute ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

But your not raising any new points.

I get that you feel the Lions were screwed.  Why keep bringing it up?

You gotta help me out here. Please, read the last few pages over again. There was an ongoing discussion about specific elements of the specific play, and of the game in general. Some questioned whether Flowers' facemask was contacted, so I posted a video that shows that it was. These are how discussions work.

People are making statements. Others are responding. It seems like the forum is working as intended.

[Sasquatch]

19 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

I'll state what I think: that the backlash prompted a response from the NFL, and the NFL responded. I don't think that's controversial.

Whining? What happened to simply having a discussion on a... forum... designed... for discussion? I don't blame the Packers at all. They were incredibly short-handed and did exactly what they had to do to win. That's the mark of a good team. Credit to Rodgers for his strong performance and to Bakhtiari for getting into the ref's ear.

Just here to discuss football.

Discussion is one thing, but to be honest, you seem to be fishing for an apology.  Why is acknowledgment from Packer fans so important to you?  

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

9 minutes ago, wgbeethree said:

You're up 13-0 in the first quarter and proceed to give up 400+ yards while gaining less than 100 the rest of the game despite a rookie trying to give you the game with two turnovers. If you don't suck you win easy and there's no chance of the refs messing up. Own up to it.

As fans of the sport, I think this is a dangerous mentality.

I don't care about the sport, or the team, or the circumstances: games shouldn't end due to bad calls. It does the fans, players and teams a disservice. Sure, it's the Lions here. It was the Packers weeks ago. It was the Saints in the playoffs. This isn't good, and shouldn't happen.

We, as fans, should constantly pressure the league to try and ensure that this doesn't happen. The better team should win on their own merits, not aided by the refs.

(Your argument here is also pretty questionable, considering that the Packers held a lead in this game for 0 seconds. They weren't impressive by any means, and were likely worse statistically. When you say "if you don't suck", you should consider the performances of both teams.)

[vegas492]

22 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Do you think that the Packers would have gone for it on 4th down, down by 2 with under 2 minutes left? Answer: of course not.

Assuming that they make the field goal, do you think that the Packers would've attempted an onside kick? Answer: of course not.

So, here's what we know: giving the Packers a first down on a bad call ended the game. No, the Lions weren't guaranteed to win had the Packers made the FG. I don't think anyone is arguing that they undoubtedly would have. That doesn't erase the fact that they didn't get that chance because of an officiating mistake.

Bad calls happen all the time.  Fail Mary comes to mind.  So does our Eagles game when WR was flat out mugged on a slant in the end zone.

You deal with the results and move on.

We didn't lose to the Eagles because of a bad call.  We lost because we couldn't punch the ball in during the other 3.5 quarters of the game.  And we couldn't stop the run.

Lions are a nice team.  You will tell if it is really a good team by how they bounce back from the loss.  Telling yah, that game in Detroit is going to be a really, really good one!

[incognito_man]

14 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Huh? Some mocked the suggestion that Bakhtiari contacted Flowers' facemask. I provided a video that undoubtedly shows that it did.

nobody mocked a comment that his hand "contacted" his facemask.

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

3 minutes ago, Sasquatch said:

Discussion is one thing, but to be honest, you seem to be fishing for an apology.  Why is acknowledgment from Packer fans so important to you?  

Where else would I go for a dissenting perspective? The general forum? Nope. Everyone agrees. Not much of a discussion to have there.

I enjoy discussion, which is why I'm here. We had a quality discussion about the Hockenson end zone incompletion, which provided quality perspective.

Just discussion man. Some questioned whether Flowers' facemask was contacted, so I posted a video that showed it was. Just discussion.

[vegas492]

8 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

You gotta help me out here. Please, read the last few pages over again. There was an ongoing discussion about specific elements of the specific play, and of the game in general. Some questioned whether Flowers' facemask was contacted, so I posted a video that shows that it was. These are how discussions work.

People are making statements. Others are responding. It seems like the forum is working as intended.

Look.  You slow the game down via replay, and go frame by frame, you can call PI on most every play...or holding.

I get the frustration.  I do.  But look at the bigger picture and ask yourself why couldn't the offense generate yards and points.

Honestly, you had the chance to bury us.  Dropped passes, flukey bounces and a fumble went against GB.  Our offense was a backup running back and undrafted free agents at WR.

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

3 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Bad calls happen all the time.  Fail Mary comes to mind.  So does our Eagles game when WR was flat out mugged on a slant in the end zone.

You deal with the results and move on.

We didn't lose to the Eagles because of a bad call.  We lost because we couldn't punch the ball in during the other 3.5 quarters of the game.  And we couldn't stop the run.

Lions are a nice team.  You will tell if it is really a good team by how they bounce back from the loss.  Telling yah, that game in Detroit is going to be a really, really good one!

See, this is an interesting perspective. In other words: no bad call is ever relevant. No bad call ever defines a game, or helps to determine an outcome. I don't agree.

I believe that refs, just like players and coaches, impact the game, and their performances are fair game to discuss.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

1 minute ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

As fans of the sport, I think this is a dangerous mentality.

I don't care about the sport, or the team, or the circumstances: games shouldn't end due to bad calls. It does the fans, players and teams a disservice. Sure, it's the Lions here. It was the Packers weeks ago. It was the Saints in the playoffs. This isn't good, and shouldn't happen.

We, as fans, should constantly pressure the league to try and ensure that this doesn't happen. The better team should win on their own merits, not aided by the refs.

(Your argument here is also pretty questionable, considering that the Packers held a lead in this game for 0 seconds. They weren't impressive by any means, and were likely worse statistically. When you say "if you don't suck", you should consider the performances of both teams.)

Can you show me a sport, especially a live action sport, where bad calls don't ever affect games?

Really, I get the frustration.  But your are hopelessly naive if you think that bad calls can be eliminated from the game.

Flowers facemask being transiently contacted doesn't necessarily make a a facemask penalty as you originally asserted, and I think you probably know that as well.