the green bay packers vefrsus the detroit loins 2019 MNF (week 5): the return of the incomparable tony brown PART DEUX

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

Just now, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

From where the official was standing it totally looked like it was on the throat, with Bahktiari's head even moving up and back just like it would with actual hands to the face.

it was a bad call baed on an optical illusion / frame of reference issue.

I don't think this is a defense that helps the refs in this case, as they didn't call that blatant facemask by Bakhtiari at the start of the second penalty. If he's in the position to call the illegal hands to the face, he has no excuse to miss the facemask.

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

5 minutes ago, Leader said:

Social media and 24/7 sports "news" programming.
Such is life now.

Exactly. Immediate news articles and twitter remarks flooding each smartphone each second of each day.

[Pugger]

Just now, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

I don't think this is a defense that helps the refs in this case, as they didn't call that blatant facemask by Bakhtiari at the start of the second penalty. If he's in the position to call the illegal hands to the face, he has no excuse to miss the facemask.

How often are OL called for hands to the face?  Is it pretty even?

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

2 minutes ago, Pugger said:

How often are OL called for hands to the face?  Is it pretty even?

By my observation, I believe so. I think I've heard it called once every two to three weeks, and it seems (to me) that it's called on both evenly. (Of course, I have no numbers to back this up.)

The facemask on Flowers was pretty clear, in my opinion. If the ref is in position to think that Flowers' hand was on Bakhtiari's neck, there's no reason why he didn't see the facemask.

[JBURGE]

1 hour ago, Leader said:

1 hour ago, JBURGE said:

It has nothing to do with what our chance of winning was in that Vikings game. It was probably 98%. The fact was that the Vikings had any chance. The Lions were not given any chance, unless we missed the FG or fumbled a kneel. 

Simple. They were both late penalty flags that changed the outcome of their games. Done.

Okay. I'll keep in mind for the future to simplify complicated things for you

Edited October 16, 2019 by JBURGE

[Leader]

8 minutes ago, JBURGE said:

Okay. I'll keep in mind for the future to simplify complicated things for you

**** off with that ****

[incognito_man]

1 hour ago, Packerraymond said:

How many "casual fans" watch games in which their local team isn't in? Also wouldn't the mainstream media coverage do the same thing the morning after and create the same issue? Even if Booger doesn't say a word, this call is making the same impact. Booger sucks, but acting like the fallout is his fault doesn't make sense to me at all.

It was MNF? You just got done saying that lol

[incognito_man]

37 minutes ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

From where the official was standing it totally looked like it was on the throat, with Bahktiari's head even moving up and back just like it would with actual hands to the face.

it was a bad call based on an optical illusion / frame of reference issue.

Which I tried to distinguish from a "bad decision", but he wasn't interested in that line of thinking.

I prefer to recognize the nuance involved in officiating this way, having done it at a fairly high level years ago.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

11 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

I don't think this is a defense that helps the refs in this case, as they didn't call that blatant facemask by Bakhtiari at the start of the second penalty. If he's in the position to call the illegal hands to the face, he has no excuse to miss the facemask.

Look, nobody is trying to help the refs. 

Bad calls are very frustrating, especially when they have playoff implications.  Packers had the infamous "fail mary" play, so we know how it feels.  But sometimes they happen.

I know you will disagree, but I don't buy the argument that there is a facemask by Bahktiari on the second play- I have watched it a dozen times in both the game broadcast slowed down and in the all 22 and it is clear he has the jersey on the chest the whole way.  It looks like a facemask from one angle after Jenkins knocks Flowers off balance and his torso comes down, but the hand is still on the jersey.

It still gets back to something I learned early on- if you don't want to get burned by bad calls, then put the other team away when you get the opportunity.  Detroit won the turnover battle 3-0.  The game should never have been close enough for this to happen.

 

[incognito_man]

33 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

I don't think this is a defense that helps the refs in this case, as they didn't call that blatant facemask by Bakhtiari at the start of the second penalty. If he's in the position to call the illegal hands to the face, he has no excuse to miss the facemask.

lol

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Just now, incognito_man said:

Which I tried to distinguish from a "bad decision", but he wasn't interested in that line of thinking.

I prefer to recognize the nuance involved in officiating this way, having done it at a fairly high level years ago.

It is a hard concept for fans to come to grips with.

I was listening to Joe Thomas and he was saying that when the position of the ref was relocated it changed how holding was called because it changed what the ref could see.  

The top players are aware of where refs position themselves and what they can get away with at various times in the play.

[Ripline]

Flowers should have learned after the first call. Move your hand to the shoulder instead of the neck!

Grabbing and HOLDING on to the shoulder pads should be defensive holding anyway!

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

10 minutes ago, Ripline said:

Flowers should have learned after the first call. Move your hand to the shoulder instead of the neck!

Grabbing and HOLDING on to the shoulder pads should be defensive holding anyway!

Careful big fella.

The Packers OL blocking technique is based on holding the defensive player's shoulder pad.  What is good for the goose...

[Rainmaker90]

1 hour ago, Packerraymond said:

The announcers really didn't make a mention of Rodgers facemask before the hailmary if I recall and that was a big thing for a day or two after, should we have gotten that last play?

It was a controversial call, I think you're being naive assuming most of those watching at 11pm on a work night don't know the rules of football and take their stance from the announcers booth.

I don't think I'm the one being naive.

 

We had a 'broadcaster' on national television say and repeat time after time that a flag cost Det the game basically and you think that doesn't change what people are think and talk about? That's not the way the world works.

 

Example; There's this certain TV station who continues to put out wild conspiracy theories and lies that are easily proven false to the outside world; but millions upon millions of people continue to believe the garbage that they put out because that's what the people on television are saying.  

[ThatJerkDave]

12 minutes ago, Rainmaker90 said:

I don't think I'm the one being naive.

 

We had a 'broadcaster' on national television say and repeat time after time that a flag cost Det the game basically and you think that doesn't change what people are think and talk about? That's not the way the world works.

 

Example; There's this certain TV station who continues to put out wild conspiracy theories and lies that are easily proven false to the outside world; but millions upon millions of people continue to believe the garbage that they put out because that's what the people on television are saying.  

If you think there is only one, then you are being naive.

 

 

We can all agree that the band at halftime really stinks.  They should not be allowed to play any non-prison venues ever again.